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Tim
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Thoughts on the European Grand Prix

Postby Tim » Mon May 30, 2005 2:51 am

Another exciting race and this time it was the Renault attacking rather than being attacked!

Alonso won his 4th race of the season. He was fortunate that Ralf didn't damage his car at the start and that Kimi retired. However, he was one of the heaviest in qualifying and so he had the pace to match the McLarens at this event.

Nick Heidfeld put the Williams on Pole as he was on a lighter fuel load but managed to benefit from his startegy and the retirement of Raikkonen and finish 2nd.

Rubens Barrichello had a good race especially after the chaos at the first corner. Finishing in 3rd was a good result.

David Coulthard benefited from the drama at the start and jumped to 4th. He had the pace to finish the race in 4th. A good and surprising result!.

Michael Schumacher lost many places at the first corner but managed to recover nicely and finish in 5th place making up a few places on the track and via the pit stops. He didn't look threating to the leaders though!

Giancarlo Fisichella started from the pitlane after failing to start. Did well to finish 6th.

Montoya lost a lot of places after tangling with Webber but appeared to be recovering well challenging Michael for position mid race however his pace dropped off later in the race and Fisichella managed to get ahead of him via the pits.

Jarno Trulli was looking strong early in the race but a penalty cost him and he only managed to recover 8th place.

Liuzzi's last race with Red Bull (for the time being) saw him finish in 9th. He seemed to struggle all weekend.

Button was fighting with Fisichella mid race but struggled towards the end and only managed 10th.

Raikkonen had a good race but he ran wide and flat spotted his tyres and that in the end cost him. They obviously took a risk. Should they have opted to change the tyre and salvage some points ? Or just slow down enough to finish second as they had a large margin to Heidfeld ?

The incident at the first corner between Montoya and Webber ? Did Webber brake too late ? Or did Montoya turn in too early ?

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Postby K-D » Mon May 30, 2005 4:40 am

A very tense race, where the different fuel strategies, meant we were about half way into the race, before we had a real feeling for how strong the various drivers were.

The usual N?rburing first corner melee meant that all drivers on the right side were penalised, and a lot of drivers on the left side gained a lot of places.

The big thing that most will remember and discuss is Kimi?s front suspension falling on the last lap, the Danish commentators were blissfully unaware, that anything was wrong, despite the in car pictures for the previous 12 laps had shown a tire in a very poor condition. My brother and I did notice it, and we both agreed that Kimi had to ride it out, and hope it did not break before the end of the race. I have already seen comments other places, that they should have gone in and changed the tire, but the team and Kimi is in it to win not to finish 3rd or 4th. And it was not the tire that gave way, it was the suspension. So even with a new tire, Kimi could still have been out.

Had the suspension held together, and Kimi won we would all glow about the drama, risk taking and great effort and magnificent win by Kimi.

Alonso won once more, and even though he only led the last lap, it is about crossing the line first, and he did not have tire problems. It?s been a fortuitous win, but good luck mostly comes to the highly talented.

There is nothing wrong with the tire rules; there is something wrong in how the drivers mistreat their tires, and the softness of the tire they chose.

Nick Heidfeld took a great Pole, and we all knew that he would be light on fuel; he still raced as strongly as a Williams could be expected to, and took a very well deserved 2nd place.

Rubens Barichello was on the right strategy, and had he not fluffed a little during qualifying, he could have had a 4 ? 5 place start, we do not know how he would have made it past the melee, but a possible 2nd place finish could have been had.

David Coulthard made a great start, benefited from the melee, but held it all together, except for him speeding in the pit lane, earning him a driver through, since he also was caught speeding on Friday, I think that Red Bull have calibrated the ?don?t speed? button incorrectly. May have been a possible podium lost there.

Michael Schumacher didn?t really do anything, he was a victim of the first corner fracas, but never really looked as strong as I would have expected him to be.

Giancarlo Fisichella stalled on the grid, and had to race from the pit and up through the field, he did very well and showed how strong a package Renault still is.

Juan Pablo Montoya was not a t fault for the first corner incident, was swung around by Webber, but from then on was never really looking particularly strong.

Jarno Trulli rounded the point?s takers of in 8th, despite a drive through courtesy of his team not getting of the grid in time.

Biggest loser of the weekend apart from Kimi must be Webber, who was the cause of the first corner problems. He obviously ruined his own race, but he also impacted Ralf Schumacher, Michael Schumacher, Juan Pablo Montoya and Takuma Sato. Talent is needed in F1, but so is perception, and the perception of Webber being a true front of the grid talent is what has carried him into one of the choice seats in F1. Now for the first time in his F1 career, he is teamed with a driver that seem at least his equal, and he is not responding very well to that.

Mistakes do happen, and Mark Webber would rather have lost a couple of places, than retire in the first corner, but he like Juan Pablo needs to look at how he is currently applying himself and his talent.

The BAR team did poorly, I had expected them to, since they were running Imola engines, and qualifying first and second, but they were actually worse in the race than I had expected them to be. And if they are equally off-pace in Canada, I will start questioning their insistence that they were never running underweight.

8)
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Postby K-D » Mon May 30, 2005 4:42 am

David Coulthard is my driver of the day.

Mark Webber have taken the full blame upon himself, so I go with that.

8)
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Postby sgd » Mon May 30, 2005 6:02 am

Driver of the race, DC!! no doubts. Just a Great drive taking into account he's in a RedBull!!!
1/3 of the season gone and he has as much points as MS, that is just unbelievable!! NO BODY would predict that.

Webber... once again THE WORSE!!!!!!!!
I predict Nick to stay at Williams and Webber being changed by Button or other when his contract expires.

Montoya & MS too slow in cars capable of much more.
Ron Dennis said Montoya "even with a badly damaged floor he was able to race to seventh place", Ron won't invent things so it's true and this could affect Monoya's pace... :?:

In the race nobody looked particulary bad or slow. worse as said, Webber. Some said his car was a "pig" but looks like now the "pig" is...other. Nick's 2 2nd places in a row shows the car is good.

Rubens did good and I was happy to see him outqualifing and outpacing MShumierda.

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Postby JayVee » Mon May 30, 2005 9:57 am

To me it was Alonso The Cute of course :1st: but what a great race!

Shows how cool headed The Cute is! Kimi should learn from him how to drive defensively :D

Sure he was lucky but he was pushing. Kimi stuffed up his tyres and that was why he retired in the end. I think Kimi should have either pitted or slowed down

Good to see different faces on the podium, good for Alonso :wink:

Other drivers I thought did very well, Coulthard although it was a trademark drive from him, avoid trouble (apart from speeding :wink: )and get to the finish.
Fisichella to start from the pitlane and finish just behind Michael show the Renault is still very strong

Of course Barrichello is worth a mention, beating the Bambino driver was good to watch

Montoya looked as if he may have a good race but his accident with Webber must have affected him

It is :alright: julian, Webber will bounce back, maybe he needed this.

This was a dream result for Alonso. No wonder he had a big smile on his face

And Briatore on the podium!! It is always good to see happy faces

Also the podium was a very friendly affair, 3 very nice drivers. I like that
I'm back and yes supporting Alonso "The Cute" in the Ferrari!

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Postby rah » Mon May 30, 2005 12:56 pm

Was a bit of a messy race. Good to watch though. As a Webber fan my interest desreased after the first corner, but I kept watching and was glad for it. There was always something happening on the track.

My vote goes to Heidfeld, would like to vote for Ruebens too but I only have one vote. They both kept their noses clean and had a good race. There was a lot of mistakes throughout the race by their competitors.

I like the way Webber took responsibility straight away. All the comentators were not sure, and each said something else for each cammera angle. I would have called it a racing incedent myself.

Good to see Alonso walk away with the win. He took better care with his tyres and reeped the benefits. Shame for Kimi, I would have stayed out too, and their is nothing wrong with going for the win. I wonder if the Ice Man was cool when his front wheel came up for a kiss.
Ok, Lewis may win the WDC in 07, but Sato will beat him in 08.

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Postby sgd » Mon May 30, 2005 10:07 pm

rah wrote:I like the way Webber took responsibility straight away. I would have called it a racing incedent myself.
a racing inceden, of course... caused by Webber's misjudge in comming TOO fast to the first corner and braking TOO late.
defending positions crashing into others is... GREAT, what a driver!!!
(i'm of coursem, overreacting here again, but... 20 drivers, 4 rookies, and the only one to do such a think... Webber. Why? maby he realised Nick is just outracing him?? sad. looks like he only can manage slow drivers as teammates...) :furious:
Now look what is DC is doing in Webber's jaguar?? DC doesn't qualify in the first row, but he consistently finish in top 8!!!
We've Webber is no more then a good Qualifier, after that he's even worse then Trulli...

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Postby rah » Mon May 30, 2005 10:30 pm

Hey, all I am saying is I don't belive Webber is the only one to blame for the incedent. There were a lot of drivers making mistakes out there, totally unforced errors. Are you having a go at them too?

I have no idea why you dislike Trulli. And I wouldn't write his talent off too quickly. Have you seen the WDC table recently. I don't know how you can rate DC so highly (A driver who has done nothing, and taken a long time to do it.) and rate other much more succesful drivers so poorly.

DC's car is hardly the same car that Webber had last year. But I am sure he is bennefitting from the hard work that Webber put into it.

Please keep in mind I never praised Webber's mistake, I only praised his humilty regarding the incedent. It would be great if you show the same humility at the end of the season when all your rantings are proven incorrect.
Ok, Lewis may win the WDC in 07, but Sato will beat him in 08.

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Postby N. Jones » Mon May 30, 2005 11:00 pm

A great race! Lots of action from beginning to end.

Beautiful drive from DC - his move to the inside on turn one was a smart thing (if you can watch a replay you will notice that Liuzzi decided to follow the leader, so to speak).

Sad day for Kimi - I bet he and Ron Dennis were thinking - better second on a flat tire than battling for fouth or fifth with a new one.

I still don't think the Renault can catch the McLaren.

Poor Webber - he hit his brakes late trying to keep Trulli behind him and smashed into Montoya - who was another that got a great start.

Ferrari - what can be said without starting a fight? Personally - I think they are done. Michael couldn't catch Massa, was 18 seconds behind DC at the finish. Rubens didn't do too bad but he was unable to catch Heidfeld once his team realised that Rubens was hot on his tail. They may be up on the grid but I still see problems (lack of qualifying and race pace).

Once again - bad luck days for Felipe and Giancarlo. They are good drivers who deserve better (AND Fisi is getting up in years - if he doesn't produce he may find himself out of a drive).

A good day for some (Alonso, Hiedfeld, DC) and a bad day for others (Webber, Ralf, Massa [AGAIN!], Fisi, Trulli,)!

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Postby JayVee » Mon May 30, 2005 11:11 pm

sgd wrote:(i'm of coursem, overreacting here again, but... 20 drivers, 4 rookies, and the only one to do such a think... Webber. Why? maby he realised Nick is just outracing him?? sad. looks like he only can manage slow drivers as teammates...) :furious:
It is a pity Webber went out, it would have been interesting to see how he'd go.
But he had more fuel so I don't think he was concerned. I think the bad starting system on the Williams is frustrating him and he isn't managing that as well as Heidfeld it seems.
I still don't understand the logic behind qualifying with a lesser fuel load even though you know you'll lose a place or two at the start. If you are heavy then losing a couple of place won't be as bad!!

sgd wrote:Now look what is DC is doing in Webber's jaguar?? DC doesn't qualify in the first row, but he consistently finish in top 8!!!
We've Webber is no more then a good Qualifier, after that he's even worse then Trulli...
Coulthard's success in the Red Bull (ex Jag) is puzzling. Logic says the car should actually be worse but with a new owner and a new driver they are much stronger immediately and that doesn't make sense and I haven't seen or read any secret explanation.
Actually F1 Racing gave the new owners such a bad run that they now seem too embarrased to mention them.

But back to Webber, I think he'll come out much stronger from this season
He needs someone like Heidfeld, the shy type who goes about his business without fuss and produces results.
Remember when Nick and Kimi drove for Sauber Nick outqualified Kimi 10-7
I'm back and yes supporting Alonso "The Cute" in the Ferrari!

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Postby K-D » Mon May 30, 2005 11:18 pm

**Cough**

I think that K-D mentioned in one f his veryfirst posts on this board, how Management of a team, and poor Management can severely influence the performance of the team.

Red Bull got rid of poor Jaguar management, and are doing great.

BAR Got rid of good management and and doing poorly.

May be coincidence, but I chose to think not.

8)
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Postby JayVee » Mon May 30, 2005 11:34 pm

K-D wrote:**Cough**

I think that K-D mentioned in one f his veryfirst posts on this board, how Management of a team, and poor Management can severely influence the performance of the team.

Red Bull got rid of poor Jaguar management, and are doing great.

BAR Got rid of good management and and doing poorly.

May be coincidence, but I chose to think not.

8)
:oops: :oops: Yes now that you mention it I remember reading your post about Red Bull.

Certainly a better explanation than F1 Racing :wink:

I still think BAR will be back though :wink:
(But I don't like DR :shock: :shock: )
I'm back and yes supporting Alonso "The Cute" in the Ferrari!

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Postby K-D » Mon May 30, 2005 11:47 pm

JayVee wrote:
K-D wrote:**Cough**

I think that K-D mentioned in one f his veryfirst posts on this board, how Management of a team, and poor Management can severely influence the performance of the team.

Red Bull got rid of poor Jaguar management, and are doing great.

BAR Got rid of good management and and doing poorly.

May be coincidence, but I chose to think not.

8)
:oops: :oops: Yes now that you mention it I remember reading your post about Red Bull.

Certainly a better explanation than F1 Racing :wink:

I still think BAR will be back though :wink:
(But I don't like DR :shock: :shock: )
Sometimes you have to acknowledge talent, eventhoug you do not like the person with the talent. As I wrote in another thread, I don't really like Kimi, but as a race driver there are at most two people better than him on the whole planet. So I acknowledge his talent, but that will not let like him any more. Same with Juan Pablo Montoya, boneheaded anoying s......, who is doing his huge talent a disservice with the boneheaded, anoying attitude and lag of aplication to wards F1. But as a racedriver, he has at most 5 people on the planet in front of him.

I do not really like Richards either, but I don't think that the whoe BAR debacle would have happend with him onboard. I know that rumours have it that they were runing the same way last season, but I still think that it would not have happend had he been in control.

Jaguar was mismanaged from the moment they took over from Stewart, and went from one poor deciscuion to another. Stewart is a racer and understand racing as well as how to manage a racing team. Jaguar never put anyone in place with the power to be the "Jackie Stewart" og Jaguar, they sacrificed Rahl and Lauda, and the last management was real "corporate Ford decision" so had failure written all over it. There is a reason why Red Bull got rid of them basically immediately.

8)

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Postby sgd » Tue May 31, 2005 3:58 am

rah wrote: It would be great if you show the same humility at the end of the season when all your rantings are proven incorrect.
hey! I inform: this year my team is Mclaren and my driver, JPM, and i already wrote: he was SLOW... as was SLOW MS, a driver which i dislike the most but I rate high, so why do you mean when you say "all your rantings are proven incorrect" ... ???


-----------
K-D, calling Montoya 's..........' is not good. I'd say similar s.... about MS, Todt and others f$%#%^) cheaters but i thought that was against the rules of the forum... or these rules are only for some...???

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Postby rah » Tue May 31, 2005 9:13 am

Well your predictions regarding the Williams drivers for one. Also regarding Trulli being a bad driver. There are other statements I deisagree with but I don't want to go through the forum for them.
Ok, Lewis may win the WDC in 07, but Sato will beat him in 08.


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