NUMBER ONE DRIVERS.

Julian Mayo · Post by **Julian Mayo** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 8:38 am

With a number of drivers going into the 2008 season as Number One drivers within their teams, it will be very interesting to watch team strategies, and the FIA governance of the rules.
Renault, McLaren, Williams, and Ferrari, imho, have obvious No 1s, with Rossberg stating that publicly.
Will it be back to the bad old days of Schuey and his No.2?

Southernman · Post by **Southernman** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:14 pm

I have no problems with teams having a number 1 and 2 driver combination. What each team does should be in the best interest of the team and its up to each team if team mates are equal or not.

My opinion is probably different from most.

It will be interesting to see how teammates compare next year.

Julian Mayo · Post by **Julian Mayo** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 12:19 pm

Might be some biff n barge

Redhead · Post by **Redhead** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 10:44 pm

I would have thought that after this season there would be a bit more appreciation for the team structure Schumi fashioned at Ferrari. There is always a lot of twaddle in forums like this one about how he had his teammates tied up in contractual read tape but the reality is all he did was make sure he never had a teammate who was gong to compete with him, no legal constraints necessary. I call it a innate hierarchy.

If you have two equal teammates in a championship contending car, all you are going to achieve is to lose yourself the championship, irregardless of how your teammates get on. Mclaren achieved this in spectacular fashion this year. In their defense, I dont think they expected to have two equal teammates this year, they probably thought they had a innate hierarchy in place, lewis, however had other ideas.

If its not a championship contending car then the issue is much less relevant.

Wouldnt it be funny if Nelson Piquet Jr turned out to be as competitive as lewis was

jido · Post by **jido** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 12:47 pm

Redhead wrote:...If its not a championship contending car then the issue is much less relevant.

Wouldnt it be funny if Nelson Piquet Jr turned out to be as competitive as lewis was

lol looking forward to that.

Merry Christmas everyone!

Snowy · Post by **Snowy** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 8:06 pm

Ferrari won the championship with two equal drivers this season. And failed to win the two previous with Schumacher and a clear hierarchy. So it is not necessarily a fact of life that you need a clear number 1 unless your opposition happens to have a clearly defined number 1 and a fast car.

Lewis lost the championship this season by one point and his teammate lost the championsip by two points, clearly they were not hampered by their infighting. It is a distinct possibility they were spurred on and actually achieved more than they would have if Lewis had played a supporting role.

Ferrari and McLaren do not have what clear number one drivers for 2008. Heikki insisted on parity and as far as an of us could possibly know Felipe is unlikely to stand for any disparity. He would have mounted a far greater challenge for the championship had it not been for a number of mechanical misfortunes and unlucky circumstances. Just because Kimi is the current World Champion doesn't of necessity make him Ferrari's number one driver.

I will add one caviat, and that is that there will often be one driver who appears or does receive more affection from a team(or team principle). But that should only affect the driver phsychologically and only weak minded drivers would be affected by this.

Redhead · Post by **Redhead** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 6:53 pm

If either Lewis or sweet FA had Pedro De La Rosa for a teammate last year they would be world champion. There have been many years when one car was so far ahead of the rest that the only interest was which teammate would win. Last year there were two championship contending cars so the two Maccas drivers taking points away from each other cost them both the championship. Equal drivers in championship contending cars take points away from each other, simple as that.

Its got nothing to do with being given some label by the team management, raw talent, fierce determination and animal cunning, topped off with a healthy dose of political nous will have its way every time. Either you have an innate hierarchy or you dont, Sweet FA was expecting one at Maccas this year, lets face it, who wasn't? (Except perhaps you Snowy!)

Snowy · Post by **Snowy** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:14 pm

You have totally failed to take into consideration all the points that Lewis and Fernando took away from Kimi and Felipe. You will find that they were not inconsiderable. It is not always easy to consider things holistically, it is easier to do as Max Mosely does and just fixate on one thing at a time. And we know what effect that has on decision making.

Redhead · Post by **Redhead** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:19 pm

Snowy wrote:You have totally failed

Bugger ..... I've been hit ...... stop the bleeding quick ............ tear off sleeve, ............ tourniquet ................. tighten .......... there I think I'll be o....

Snowy wrote:It is not always easy to consider things holistically,

Crap .....................hit again ................ hold first tourniquet with teeth ......... tear off other sleeve ........... so much blood .............. tighten ................ the flow is slowing down ........ maybe I will make i................

Snowy wrote:it is easier to do as Max Mosely does.

Copped it in the chest ................ I'm fu......................................

Jim Watt · Post by **Jim Watt** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 10:26 am

Season's Greetings, Chaps:

I have always been amused by the "team orders" concept. I believe it exists in Plato's world of Perfect Forms. Maybe. But not here and especially not in the world at 200MPH into the corners. It's as amusing to me that Fernando desired "team orders" as it is that Ferrari always vehemently denied there was any such thing and Ron Dennis has always claimed likewise.

Whether people believe that Michael or Ayrton or Fernando (or Kimi, for that matter!), achieved their wins courtesy of their team-mates or Team Managers, or whether they believe they achieved their podiums and points and championships purely on their own "merits" (however you choose to define merit) is like debating whether or not angels can dance and how many of them can fit on a pinhead.

Of course a driver needs the best machinery and the best engineers and the best advice he can get. But he also needs to get on with the job himself. Indeed, that IS his job.

In fact no one who is hired to drive F1 machinery is either incapable of winning or likely to motor quietly in to the pits on hearing from his engineer that his mate needs to pass him, please.

Radios have a way of cutting out, after all. And we know plenty of times when both drivers and team managers have blamed "technical problems" for clear instances of their own mismanagement. Remember Ferrari "not knowing that Full Wets were required because they didn't receive the email"?

Now, from time to time (but rather more rarely than most realize) drivers slow and allow team mates to overtake them. It is almost always, though, something between the DRIVERS and has very little to do with the Team Bosses or anyone else. When Michael "let" Rubino take a win some years back, everyone knew he was "paying the Brazilian back" for an earlier favor. But everyone ALSO knew that the payback was one he could, then, AFFORD to make. And earlier, when Rubino slowed for Michael? Even if he was told to do it. Even if he claimed he wasn't told to do it. What is certain is that he, Rubino, the driver, CHOSE to do it.

That is, precisely, why you don't often hear drivers whining about being "cheated out of" wins. Because if they do so, they're either lying to cover up their own lapse, or admitting that they would rather keep their seat than take an F1 win when they have it in hand.

There are some exceptions, of course. Senna, famously, took a WDC by literally eliminating the competition. That was, again, his CHOICE. He had enough wins; all he had to do was prevent the competition from even having a chance. Does that make him less 'sporting'? Yes. Does it make him less of a winning driver? No.

What an F1 driver DOES know, besides what to do with a machine that can take him to the front, is who OWNS that machine -- and how far he can afford to irritate him --or them. And, just as he drives his machine as close to the limit as he can, so he pushes his relationship with the management as far as he dares.

But "Team Orders"? I don't think so. How many first turns this past year did you see the chaps at the front following orders? or even following!? In fact what makes it so exciting is everyone wanting to LEAD and NO ONE wanting to follow.

IF we are lucky next year, there will be four or maybe six machines that can take a driver to the front: two will be red, two will be silver and black and two will probably be blue and white. Not to be coy, I mean Ferrari, McLaren and BMW/Sauber.

And don't count out the blue and yellow cars yet either. I HOPE they will be competitive, but I have my doubts. Not even Fernando will be able to bring seven or eight tenths to the Flav. And I don't know if two or three tenths will be enough. But if they are, we'll have EIGHT CARS capable of winning. And EIGHT DRIVERS, too.

So we're having Kimi/Felipe; Lewis/Heikki; Roberto/Nick AND Fernando & the rookie.

You all know that my favorite is the WDC and I'll be hoping he can repeat; but NONE of these drivers (except for the rookie) can be called a "Number Two". And if he performs like the rookie of the year THIS year did, then he, too, won't be so labelled.

I don't know why else I am so excited ALREADY. But F1 is looking more and more to me like it did in the good old days. Bring on the wheel banging and may the best man win!!

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

Jim Watt