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Note that some of their cheats may NOT be illigal, but still CHEAT!!

1.The whole team works only in ONE driver and the second one is NOT allowed to win if this affects the FIRST driver.

2.This season ferari will be barking a test-limiting agreement which signed 100% of their competitors.

3.Ferrari is receiving more money from F1 then any other team.

4.Ferrari preferencial treatment by F1... ferarri ideas becoming rules...

5.....

Do you know more?

so... they don't just cheat, but cheat*chat*cheat*chat (4!!)!! (at least)

Is that the spitit of F1? (as some suggested)

a bit midified "cites":
"it seems as they believe they can not win on an even playing field..."
"About Ferrari wins (in already many cheating years) we can all say it was nothing to do with Michaels genius, just Ferrari having an advantage (albeit an anti-sport one) that the other teams do not"





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Montoya and Kimi would make MShumierda eat dust is equal cars!

It, unfortunately, seems to be the nature of the sport, SGD. All the teams will get away with anything they can, to get any sort of advantage

julian mayo wrote:It, unfortunately, seems to be the nature of the sport, SGD. All the teams will get away with anything they can, to get any sort of advantage

I'm not agree, I think that it's not the nature but the state of the sport in the last years.
Of course all want to get any sort of advantage, but CHEATING?? you can (an should, if want to be a authentic champ) get real advantage by your capacities in the sport, not in cheating!!

Problem is that what you are calling cheating is allowed. Not much can be done about it as all the teams signed the concorde agreement.

But they are doing something about it and that is what GPWC is all about. Having fairness and excitement in the sport. Lets hope they succeed.

The other way of course is to beat Ferrari on track which I am hopeful would happen this year

JayVee wrote:Problem is that what you are calling cheating is allowed. Not much can be done about it as all the teams signed the concorde agreement.
But they are doing something about it and that is what GPWC is all about. Having fairness and excitement in the sport. Lets hope they succeed.
The other way of course is to beat Ferrari on track which I am hopeful would happen this year

Only cheat No 1 seems iligal (but too hard to control) anyway cheat is cheat and if it's not against the rules (FIA-ferrari made!!), at least against the competitive spirit of the sport!! (the most important!) Is it interesting to see a team which wins cheating? is there any real champion is such a championship? (maybe Todt, the champ of the cheat!)

sgd wrote:Note that some of their cheats may NOT be illigal, but still CHEAT!!

1.The whole team works only in ONE driver and the second one is NOT allowed to win if this affects the FIRST driver.

2.This season ferari will be barking a test-limiting agreement which signed 100% of their competitors.

3.Ferrari is receiving more money from F1 then any other team.

4.Ferrari preferencial treatment by F1... ferarri ideas becoming rules...

5.....

Do you know more?

so... they don't just cheat, but cheat*chat*cheat*chat (4!!)!! (at least)

sgd,

If something is legal then it is NOT cheating

1. Team orders were banned a couple of years ago. What you described did indeed happen in the past but there was no evidence of it last year or the year before

2. Ferrari did not agree to the test agreement in the first place. How can that be breaking ?
You realise that Ferrari are the only top team on Bridgestone and if they limit their testing then they won't be competitive

3. That is part of the concorde agreement which was signed by all teams

4. No evidence of that either. I must admit it does look bad when a meeting is called by the FIA and only Ferrari show up. Obviously the ideas put forward by Ferrari could become rules in that case.

I hope this issue gets resolved and quickly. It isn't a good atmosphere at the moment but don't just go blaming Ferrari for the mistakes of the others. Things will be solved by negotioation but until then, each party will stick to their guns

Ok,
I won't disscus more on this... at the end my point is that their "tactics" (as not leting race RB against MS (and that is IN FACT cheat, i think you're the unique person who needs more demostrations of that)), the ferrari-made FIA rules, and the othet Todt's "tactics", is not the way of real champions, MS can't be an authentic champion when his teammate is not allowed to race him but have to stand and wait in line behind MS in pits or just let him pass when he's doing "too much"... he's just racing alone in a championship with rules made by and/or for ferrari... Put a really fast driver in the second ferrari, let him race and put the other teams in equal conditions, and them we'll see a real world CHAMPION!! (read e.g. Senna or MS some years ago).

a last comment:

FerrariFan#1 wrote: 4. No evidence of that either. I must admit it does look bad when a meeting is called by the FIA and only Ferrari show up. Obviously the ideas put forward by Ferrari could become rules in that case.

You're asking for evidence?? obviously I couldn't give you any, but in fact I see it quite evident ("the most blind is that who doesn't want to see")
a small graphical "evidence", by Sutton: http://some-things2.narod.ru/photo.html

sgd wrote:MS can't be an authentic champion when his teammate is not allowed to race him but have to stand and wait in line behind MS in pits or just let him pass when he's doing "too much"... he's just racing alone in a championship with rules made by and/or for ferrari... Put a really fast driver in the second ferrari, let him race and put the other teams in equal conditions, and them we'll see a real world CHAMPION!! (read e.g. Senna or MS some years ago).

Agree with you sgd and the teams realise this and that is why they are demanding change. Hopefully things will be much fairer come 2008.

For now though we hope the other teams catch up and teach Ferrari a lesson on track

Spot on, both of you

Sgd, i agree with you that not letting Rubens compete with Michael is bad...but only for Rubens!!!
I can bet that all you non-ferrari supportors would never support or back Rubens even if he's allowed to compete against Michael.So dont even mention it.
Dont disagree that Senna-Prost rivalry was exicitng to watch.(would even enjoy Karthikeyan & Monteiro rivalry in Jordan too )
All the fuss & irritation is about being anti-Ferrari and anti-Michael, cos they've on a roll for the past few years.
Ferrari from 2000-2004 have built the best cars(1999 wasnt their best car even though they won)...n they deserve to win.U sa they get more money-Has FIA stopped Mclaren,Williams from using their power and presence in the sport.Doesnt Toyota have the biggest budget in F1?Can only money make the cars go faster????Isnt dedication and hardwork counted.Like Mclaren lost the plot last year and were busy in making state-of-an-art centre.

Preferential treatment-If you fav teams dont turn up its Ferrari's fault rgt??And btw,Mclaren and Williams got this treatment when they were no.1,even Benetton did!!.

The arguement of whose the best driver can continue till the world ends.Right now Michael Schumacher is the man to beat.Mika Hakkinen,Aryton Senna ,Alain Prost were the men to beat ealier.

Who said F1 is about drivers racing in same cars trying to be the best.F1 champion needs to have the best pakage rgt? Everyteam at some point had the best pakage and EVERYTEAM has found loopholes with the rules to optimise their chances(which i believe you think is CHEATING)

KIMI,MONTOYA,ALONSO,WEBBER,FISI....are all one of the best drivers today.Their is to be the best...when they are not complaining why r u??

I will mention it Kapel ! It is important to me to see Barrichello race Schuey on even terms, for the fairness of the sport. All Schuey has done is eliminate one rival with the current arrangement, and that bloody stinks

hey Julian ,i said its bad,i being a Ferrari n Schumi supporter dont like it either.But y mention it if v cant do anything about it,actually no one can.

Support the others in the field who can do it ...

Because mentioning it makes me feel better

Well i'm glad stleast something about Michael makes u happy