Indy

POd in Atlanta · Post by **POd in Atlanta** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 4:26 am

EDITED

Another reason not to buy (Michelin) products.

Swanny · Post by **Swanny** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 6:06 am

I dont blame Michelin I blame the FIA

Julian Mayo · Post by **Julian Mayo** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 6:15 am

Right now, at 6;12 am(

) I blame Michelin for stuffing up, the FIA for being as useful as tits on a bull, Bernie for ducking the issue, Ferrari and Jordan for being unsporting, Moseley for being born, the lack of any leadership to resolve the issue, and the total incompetence of these people to negotiate

<T-K> · Post by **<T-K>** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 7:43 am

mlittle · Post by **mlittle** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 10:51 am

Considering the disaster that the USGP at Indy became today, I honestly believe that F1 either won't return to the 'States period OR will return, but to a different venue. Here's some alternatives for '06(if the FIA even brings Formula 1 back):Road America(4-mile road course, layout similar to Spa-Francorchamps), Laguna Seca(just imagine those F1 cars flyin' through the Corkscrew on the back end of that course). Heck, bring back either of the street circuits F1 and CART used in Detroit(F1-the downtown course; CART-Belle Isle Park). At least there would have been a decent race then instead of the farce at Indy this year.

Julian Mayo · Post by **Julian Mayo** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 12:23 pm

mlittle wrote:Considering the disaster that the USGP at Indy became today, I honestly believe that F1 either won't return to the 'States period OR will return, but to a different venue. Here's some alternatives for '06(if the FIA even brings Formula 1 back):Road America(4-mile road course, layout similar to Spa-Francorchamps), Laguna Seca(just imagine those F1 cars flyin' through the Corkscrew on the back end of that course). Heck, bring back either of the street circuits F1 and CART used in Detroit(F1-the downtown course; CART-Belle Isle Park). At least there would have been a decent race then instead of the farce at Indy this year.

Which U.S. promoter would take the risk of dealing with the FIA now?

mlittle · Post by **mlittle** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 12:41 pm

Julian, here would be my two choices for whichever person would promote an F-1 event in the 'States(if any would, that is). No.1--Chris Pook, former CART president and current promoter of ChampCar's Toyota GP at Long Beach(which used to be an F1 venue from 1975-1983). No.2--Kevin Kalkoven,one of ChampCar's current series co-owner and co-owner of the PKV Racing team in that series. Either of them could've dealt w/the event today better than George and Co. today.

Oh, BTW, in case anyone w/USGP tickets is wondering what to do w/them, Speed Channel's Dave Despain, on his "Wind Tunnel" show, mentioned that next week, when ChampCar holds its' annual "Roar by the Shore" a/k/a the Grand Prix of Cleveland, they will honor any & all USGP tickets. They've been running up there at the Burke Lakefront Airport since the early 1980's and it's one of CCWS's signature events, like Long Beach.

rah · Post by **rah** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 12:45 pm

Smart marketing by Camp Car.

mlittle · Post by **mlittle** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 1:09 pm

Good comment, rah. To me, there's probably two reasons why ChampCar is offering to honor USGP tixs(tickets) at Cleveland next week.
1-It offers F1 fans a chance to see what has become of the CCWS's better events. The GP of Cleveland, which first ran in the early 1980's is definitely one of those races you have to see, either live or on television. To see the cars head down the front-straight into the funnel turn(turn 1) is a sight, cause' it usually results in at least one or more cars wreckin' and ending their day. If you make it past that turn, the rest of the circuit is a breeze, so to speak.
2-It gives ChampCar a golden opportunity to "stick it" to Tony George, the IRL and Indianapolis in that, by offering to honor USGP tickets, it just adds a little more embarrasment to them after the farce at Indy today. Ever since the CART-IRL split in 1996, they have been in a similar death-spiral that, until this year's Indy 500, the IRL had been in as well. Maybe the upcoming GP Cleveland event will give F1 fans something to cheer about, which might turn them away from attending next year's F1 race in the U.S., whether its' held at Indy or elsewhere.

Julian Mayo · Post by **Julian Mayo** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 1:22 pm

mlittle wrote:Julian, here would be my two choices for whichever person would promote an F-1 event in the 'States(if any would, that is). No.1--Chris Pook, former CART president and current promoter of ChampCar's Toyota GP at Long Beach(which used to be an F1 venue from 1975-1983). No.2--Kevin Kalkoven,one of ChampCar's current series co-owner and co-owner of the PKV Racing team in that series. Either of them could've dealt w/the event today better than George and Co. today.

Oh, BTW, in case anyone w/USGP tickets is wondering what to do w/them, Speed Channel's Dave Despain, on his "Wind Tunnel" show, mentioned that next week, when ChampCar holds its' annual "Roar by the Shore" a/k/a the Grand Prix of Cleveland, they will honor any & all USGP tickets. They've been running up there at the Burke Lakefront Airport since the early 1980's and it's one of CCWS's signature events, like Long Beach.

Chris Pook has been around for too long to get entangled with Moseley and co, and Kevin K is too smart

As Rah said, clever marketing by champcar, and another nail in the F1 coffin

mlittle · Post by **mlittle** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 1:57 pm

Point taken, julian. But, ironically, their decision doesn't surprise me. In the three occasions where ChampCar and the IRL have tangled(over CART's assets, Cosworth Eng. and the GP of Long Beach) KK, GF and allies have beaten George and Co. each time. I don't think it'll be a nail in F1's coffin, but it is, it's a well-deserved nail, so to speak.

Julian Mayo · Post by **Julian Mayo** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 2:09 pm

mlittle wrote:Point taken, julian. But, ironically, their decision doesn't surprise me. In the three occasions where ChampCar and the IRL have tangled(over CART's assets, Cosworth Eng. and the GP of Long Beach) KK, GF and allies have beaten George and Co. each time. I don't think it'll be a nail in F1's coffin, but it is, it's a well-deserved nail, so to speak.

Does ANYBODY still like George

mlittle · Post by **mlittle** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 2:11 pm

Not that I know, ever since the split in 1996.

Julian Mayo · Post by **Julian Mayo** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 2:23 pm

mlittle wrote:Not that I know, ever since the split in 1996.

Yeah, you guys have had a taste of what we are going to be trying to digest in two and a half years time

mlittle · Post by **mlittle** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 2:34 pm

One difference though; y'all at least get two+ years to wait and wonder. Mr. George and Co. sprung it on us after hiding his intentions following a failed effort in 92'-93' to remake CART in his own image. Ironically, there was some merit in what he tried to do, which was to give the oval tracks in CART(at that time, they were Indy, Michigan, Nazareth, Phoenix, and Loudon(in NH)) a voice in how the series was being run. If CART had only been willing to listen, they might have seen George for the chameleon he ended up as, and would have worked to allievate his concerns w/out the takeover effort...we'll never really know what could have happened in that regard, my friend. All that us American open-wheel fans know is that since 1996, its' been an open-ended 'civil war' of sorts, with both sides only now talking about a merger. Ironically, it took one of the best Indy 500's in the modern era(since 1979, when CART was created), this years', 2005, to even bring that topic back up.