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JayVee wrote:

Bundy wrote: Sorry JV I have to agree with Rah on this.....If you look at the 2 races individually the only time the had a chance of racing against each other was Belgium & AP wasn't within Cooee of MW. MW never had an opportunity to race at the previous GP.

You can only get a realistic comparison over 10+ races. Like comparing NH & MW. They were evenly matched, only 1 point separating them before NH got "injured". Thats a fair comparison...

Fully agree that it isn't a realistic comparison but what I am saying is that if a substitute driver gets a better result than a regular driver it would be embarassing. Any driver, be it Webber, Button, Alonso or whoever.

Regarding Webber and Heidfeld, let me correct you if I may, before Heidfeld got injured he was 4 points ahead of Webber. Just for the sake of accuracy

It would be embarassing for MW if he gets beaten by AP if both of them don't have any car, traffic, accident problems etc etc etc etc.....Then yes I would agree with you.

4 points still is an even contest.

Bundy wrote: It would be embarassing for MW if he gets beaten by AP if both of them don't have any car, traffic, accident problems etc etc etc etc.....Then yes I would agree with you.

4 points still is an even contest.

Ah but it would be embarassing regardless if it was Button or Alonso, honest

I agree 4 points is too close to call and that is why all along I have been saying that Heidfeld has proved a very tough opponent to Webber and has disspelled the myth that Webber is half a second a lap faster than anyone else in the same car

JayVee wrote:

Bundy wrote: It would be embarassing for MW if he gets beaten by AP if both of them don't have any car, traffic, accident problems etc etc etc etc.....Then yes I would agree with you.

4 points still is an even contest.

Ah but it would be embarassing regardless if it was Button or Alonso, honest

I agree 4 points is too close to call and that is why all along I have been saying that Heidfeld has proved a very tough opponent to Webber and has disspelled the myth that Webber is half a second a lap faster than anyone else in the same car

GEEZ, that throwaway line said for a stir by somone sure keeps surfacing

Julian Mayo wrote:

JayVee wrote:

Bundy wrote: It would be embarassing for MW if he gets beaten by AP if both of them don't have any car, traffic, accident problems etc etc etc etc.....Then yes I would agree with you.

4 points still is an even contest.

Ah but it would be embarassing regardless if it was Button or Alonso, honest

I agree 4 points is too close to call and that is why all along I have been saying that Heidfeld has proved a very tough opponent to Webber and has disspelled the myth that Webber is half a second a lap faster than anyone else in the same car

GEEZ, that throwaway line said for a stir by somone sure keeps surfacing

& its not necessarily untrue....NH hasn't out qualified MW very often. The only time I remember was when Mark had to run 1st in qualifying & Nick about 15th & even then he only qual. about 1 place higher (from my fading memory).

Nick has raced well though however, got through the initial laps better than Mark and manage to finish more often. However Mark is still the quicker driver.

People keeps mentioning how good a year Nick has had and how bad a year Mark has had and they were only separated by 4 points before Nick got injured. I think that has got a lot to do with Mark's talent and the expectation on him to deliver is huge.

He hasn't had a good year, even I admit to that, BUT that doesn't change the fact that put everyone in the same car and I would expect him to be running inside the top 3. But racing throws up variables, like engine performance, tyres, racing accidents, non-racing (read poor driving) accidents etc etc. Mark has made some mistakes but he has also copped a hell of a lot of bad luck as well.

My opinion of the bloke as a driver hasn't changed, neither has Sir Frank's, Alan Jones's etc etc etc. This year was for experience. (I remember making this point with Julian after the Aust GP). Running top 5 or 6 is different from trying to finish 10th. Other factors come into play. Hopefully he has learnt and will be a MUCH better driver for it next year.

Bundy wrote:& its not necessarily untrue....NH hasn't out qualified MW very often. The only time I remember was when Mark had to run 1st in qualifying & Nick about 15th & even then he only qual. about 1 place higher (from my fading memory).

Nick has raced well though however, got through the initial laps better than Mark and manage to finish more often. However Mark is still the quicker driver.

People keeps mentioning how good a year Nick has had and how bad a year Mark has had and they were only separated by 4 points before Nick got injured. I think that has got a lot to do with Mark's talent and the expectation on him to deliver is huge.

He hasn't had a good year, even I admit to that, BUT that doesn't change the fact that put everyone in the same car and I would expect him to be running inside the top 3. But racing throws up variables, like engine performance, tyres, racing accidents, non-racing (read poor driving) accidents etc etc. Mark has made some mistakes but he has also copped a hell of a lot of bad luck as well.

My opinion of the bloke as a driver hasn't changed, neither has Sir Frank's, Alan Jones's etc etc etc. This year was for experience. (I remember making this point with Julian after the Aust GP). Running top 5 or 6 is different from trying to finish 10th. Other factors come into play. Hopefully he has learnt and will be a MUCH better driver for it next year.

Excellent post Bundy and I too hope that he learns from this year and does well next year against whoever he races against.
I said before that next year he'll sure have lower expectations and that may actually help him.

JayVee wrote:

rah wrote: Nah sorry, I just can't agree to a comparison over two races. It's bollocks.

Ok rah let me put it another way:

Say Takuma Sato is fired from BAR and is replaced for the last 3 races by Anthony Davidson. Davidson finishes ahead of Button in 2 of those races. Now wouldn't that be embarassing for Button ?

Take off your Webber tinted glasses will you

No, I don't think it would be embarassing if there was a reason.

I will take off mine if you take yours off.

Pot to kettle......

YOUR FADING MEMORY? THANKS TO YOUR BUNDY RECIPE WHATS LEFT OF MY BRAIN IS BLEEDING OUT THRU MY EYEBALLS.

JayVee wrote:

Bundy wrote:& its not necessarily untrue....NH hasn't out qualified MW very often. The only time I remember was when Mark had to run 1st in qualifying & Nick about 15th & even then he only qual. about 1 place higher (from my fading memory).

Nick has raced well though however, got through the initial laps better than Mark and manage to finish more often. However Mark is still the quicker driver.

People keeps mentioning how good a year Nick has had and how bad a year Mark has had and they were only separated by 4 points before Nick got injured. I think that has got a lot to do with Mark's talent and the expectation on him to deliver is huge.

He hasn't had a good year, even I admit to that, BUT that doesn't change the fact that put everyone in the same car and I would expect him to be running inside the top 3. But racing throws up variables, like engine performance, tyres, racing accidents, non-racing (read poor driving) accidents etc etc. Mark has made some mistakes but he has also copped a hell of a lot of bad luck as well.

My opinion of the bloke as a driver hasn't changed, neither has Sir Frank's, Alan Jones's etc etc etc. This year was for experience. (I remember making this point with Julian after the Aust GP). Running top 5 or 6 is different from trying to finish 10th. Other factors come into play. Hopefully he has learnt and will be a MUCH better driver for it next year.

Excellent post Bundy and I too hope that he learns from this year and does well next year against whoever he races against.
I said before that next year he'll sure have lower expectations and that may actually help him.

AND AS SOON AS HE STARTS WINNING, NO DOUBT YOU WILL JUMP ON HIS BANDWAGON. He needs support NOW. ( Dearest )

rah wrote: I will take off mine if you take yours off.

But I don't have any tinted glasses

If you think I do, please let me know

JayVee wrote: Excellent post Bundy and I too hope that he learns from this year and does well next year against whoever he races against.
I said before that next year he'll sure have lower expectations and that may actually help him.

No doubt it will. I believe he has put way too much pressure on himself to get instant podiums & race wins. Initially the car didn't help but now I think Mark & everyone else has become too impatient. He's worrying about everyone else instead of concentrating on the job.

I have no doubt that he will win races and lots of them

JayVee wrote:

rah wrote: I will take off mine if you take yours off.

But I don't have any tinted glasses

If you think I do, please let me know

lol i thought i did.

JayVee wrote:

rah wrote: I will take off mine if you take yours off.

But I don't have any tinted glasses

If you think I do, please let me know

Not tinted perhaps, but how can you see thru the pictures of Sweet FA stuck on them

Julian Mayo wrote: AND AS SOON AS HE STARTS WINNING, NO DOUBT YOU WILL JUMP ON HIS BANDWAGON. He needs support NOW. ( Dearest )

Support does NOT mean I praise him for his mistakes.

I'll praise him when he impresses and so far this year he hasn't imho.
I am not a Button supporter but his drive in Belgium was impressive.

I don't jump on the winning bandwagon Julian. That is a false accusation

Guys please provide hard facts that I unfairly praise Alonso The Cute

JayVee wrote:

Julian Mayo wrote: AND AS SOON AS HE STARTS WINNING, NO DOUBT YOU WILL JUMP ON HIS BANDWAGON. He needs support NOW. ( Dearest )

Support does NOT mean I praise him for his mistakes.

I'll praise him when he impresses and so far this year he hasn't imho.
I am not a Button supporter but his drive in Belgium was impressive.

I don't jump on the winning bandwagon Julian. That is a false accusation

Tell that to JV, JV