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Bundy wrote:Massa's performance was faultless.

Not exactly. He went so slowly through turn one at the start that Schumi nearly drive into the back of him, which triggered the whole first corner schmozzle.

Redhead wrote:

Bundy wrote:Massa's performance was faultless.

Not exactly. He went so slowly through turn one at the start that Schumi nearly drive into the back of him, which triggered the whole first corner schmozzle.

Which, in my extremely humble opinion, was an attempt to let Scummi by. If Scummi had not been so intent on tring to cut across Alonso, he may well have had the lead thru turn 1, with Massa rear-gunning for him. That also is in my ever more humble opinion.

Julian Mayo wrote:

Redhead wrote:

Bundy wrote:Massa's performance was faultless.

Not exactly. He went so slowly through turn one at the start that Schumi nearly drive into the back of him, which triggered the whole first corner schmozzle.

Which, in my extremely humble opinion, was an attempt to let Scummi by. If Scummi had not been so intent on tring to cut across Alonso, he may well have had the lead thru turn 1, with Massa rear-gunning for him. That also is in my ever more humble opinion.

Couple of things make me very extremely humbly disagree a)getting past Massa would have easily been accomplished in the first pit stop, Schumi was fuelled to go longer anyway, b) letting Schumi past at the first corner whilst fending one of those fast launching Renaults coming off the fast side of the track doesn't really sound sensible, from a racing or a political point of view. IMVEHO

Redhead wrote:

Julian Mayo wrote:

Redhead wrote:
Not exactly. He went so slowly through turn one at the start that Schumi nearly drive into the back of him, which triggered the whole first corner schmozzle.

Which, in my extremely humble opinion, was an attempt to let Scummi by. If Scummi had not been so intent on tring to cut across Alonso, he may well have had the lead thru turn 1, with Massa rear-gunning for him. That also is in my ever more humble opinion.

Couple of things make me very extremely humbly disagree a)getting past Massa would have easily been accomplished in the first pit stop, Schumi was fuelled to go longer anyway, b) letting Schumi past at the first corner whilst fending one of those fast launching Renaults coming off the fast side of the track doesn't really sound sensible, from a racing or a political point of view. IMVEHO

While deferentially tugging my forelock, and bowing with humility, that strategy would have gone out the window, if a fast launching Renault had passed Scummi at the start, cos, and I say this with the utmost respect for your point of view, Massa in his lighter car would have had to go like the clappers anyway, and the gap back to Scummi would have been too great
In deference, it is my humblest opinion that the plan was to bottle both the Renaults, and have Scummi slip thru on the apex.

Julian Mayo wrote:

Redhead wrote:

Julian Mayo wrote:
Which, in my extremely humble opinion, was an attempt to let Scummi by. If Scummi had not been so intent on tring to cut across Alonso, he may well have had the lead thru turn 1, with Massa rear-gunning for him. That also is in my ever more humble opinion.

Couple of things make me very extremely humbly disagree a)getting past Massa would have easily been accomplished in the first pit stop, Schumi was fuelled to go longer anyway, b) letting Schumi past at the first corner whilst fending one of those fast launching Renaults coming off the fast side of the track doesn't really sound sensible, from a racing or a political point of view. IMVEHO

While deferentially tugging my forelock, and bowing with humility, that strategy would have gone out the window, if a fast launching Renault had passed Scummi at the start, cos, and I say this with the utmost respect for your point of view, Massa in his lighter car would have had to go like the clappers anyway, and the gap back to Scummi would have been too great
In deference, it is my humblest opinion that the plan was to bottle both the Renaults, and have Scummi slip thru on the apex.

I think you blokes are starting to miss the point.

Out of the 8 drivers that finished in the points who drove THE BEST race????

Not 1st corner, or 22nd lap or 2nd stint etc etc etc.

Massa

Yes, FA did well to get passed MS. Yes he did a good job at holding MS at bay in the closing laps BUT the race is more than just a hand full of laps. You don't give extra points to blokes who do well for part of the race.

Julian Mayo wrote:

Redhead wrote:

Julian Mayo wrote:
Which, in my extremely humble opinion, was an attempt to let Scummi by. If Scummi had not been so intent on tring to cut across Alonso, he may well have had the lead thru turn 1, with Massa rear-gunning for him. That also is in my ever more humble opinion.

Couple of things make me very extremely humbly disagree a)getting past Massa would have easily been accomplished in the first pit stop, Schumi was fuelled to go longer anyway, b) letting Schumi past at the first corner whilst fending one of those fast launching Renaults coming off the fast side of the track doesn't really sound sensible, from a racing or a political point of view. IMVEHO

While deferentially tugging my forelock, and bowing with humility, that strategy would have gone out the window, if a fast launching Renault had passed Scummi at the start, cos, and I say this with the utmost respect for your point of view, Massa in his lighter car would have had to go like the clappers anyway, and the gap back to Scummi would have been too great
In deference, it is my humblest opinion that the plan was to bottle both the Renaults, and have Scummi slip thru on the apex.

Respect. I'm going to send this one to the video ref. Will have a look at the tape tonight and see if I can see your scenario evolving.

Redhead wrote:

Julian Mayo wrote:

Redhead wrote:
Couple of things make me very extremely humbly disagree a)getting past Massa would have easily been accomplished in the first pit stop, Schumi was fuelled to go longer anyway, b) letting Schumi past at the first corner whilst fending one of those fast launching Renaults coming off the fast side of the track doesn't really sound sensible, from a racing or a political point of view. IMVEHO

While deferentially tugging my forelock, and bowing with humility, that strategy would have gone out the window, if a fast launching Renault had passed Scummi at the start, cos, and I say this with the utmost respect for your point of view, Massa in his lighter car would have had to go like the clappers anyway, and the gap back to Scummi would have been too great
In deference, it is my humblest opinion that the plan was to bottle both the Renaults, and have Scummi slip thru on the apex.

Respect. I'm going to send this one to the video ref. Will have a look at the tape tonight and see if I can see your scenario evolving.

thank you. No doubt it will, at first glance verify your opininion. However, if you have three wild turkys n coke in quick succession, adopt my theory, humble as it is, and review the sequence......???

Bundy wrote:

Julian Mayo wrote:

Redhead wrote:
Couple of things make me very extremely humbly disagree a)getting past Massa would have easily been accomplished in the first pit stop, Schumi was fuelled to go longer anyway, b) letting Schumi past at the first corner whilst fending one of those fast launching Renaults coming off the fast side of the track doesn't really sound sensible, from a racing or a political point of view. IMVEHO

While deferentially tugging my forelock, and bowing with humility, that strategy would have gone out the window, if a fast launching Renault had passed Scummi at the start, cos, and I say this with the utmost respect for your point of view, Massa in his lighter car would have had to go like the clappers anyway, and the gap back to Scummi would have been too great
In deference, it is my humblest opinion that the plan was to bottle both the Renaults, and have Scummi slip thru on the apex.

I think you blokes are starting to miss the point.

Out of the 8 drivers that finished in the points who drove THE BEST race????

Not 1st corner, or 22nd lap or 2nd stint etc etc etc.

Massa

Yes, FA did well to get passed MS. Yes he did a good job at holding MS at bay in the closing laps BUT the race is more than just a hand full of laps. You don't give extra points to blokes who do well for part of the race.

Bundy, I concur with what you say to the point where I voted Massa as the driver of the day.....and was the first to vote.
I am simply discussing the start with our erstwhile colleague, and expressing my humblest of humble opinions on that.

Julian Mayo wrote:in the race I watched, the commentators alluded to "something slippery at turn 8" a number of times. If two cars are line astern, and one car slides wide in something slippery, sure as god made little green apples, so will the second car......probably more so, as the driver of the second car is unsighted.

Yes that caught my attention too during the rerun. I believe it was Kubica and another fella following him went out at turn 8 and then another the following lap... Could have been some oil spill on the track. Due to the heat and the rubber melting on the track surface that oil spill has not lasted too long. Otherwise it would have been an ice rink there

Julian Mayo wrote:

Bundy wrote:

Julian Mayo wrote:
While deferentially tugging my forelock, and bowing with humility, that strategy would have gone out the window, if a fast launching Renault had passed Scummi at the start, cos, and I say this with the utmost respect for your point of view, Massa in his lighter car would have had to go like the clappers anyway, and the gap back to Scummi would have been too great
In deference, it is my humblest opinion that the plan was to bottle both the Renaults, and have Scummi slip thru on the apex.

I think you blokes are starting to miss the point.

Out of the 8 drivers that finished in the points who drove THE BEST race????

Not 1st corner, or 22nd lap or 2nd stint etc etc etc.

Massa

Yes, FA did well to get passed MS. Yes he did a good job at holding MS at bay in the closing laps BUT the race is more than just a hand full of laps. You don't give extra points to blokes who do well for part of the race.

Bundy, I concur with what you say to the point where I voted Massa as the driver of the day.....and was the first to vote.
I am simply discussing the start with our erstwhile colleague, and expressing my humblest of humble opinions on that.

Fair enough....

gkaytaz wrote:

Julian Mayo wrote:in the race I watched, the commentators alluded to "something slippery at turn 8" a number of times. If two cars are line astern, and one car slides wide in something slippery, sure as god made little green apples, so will the second car......probably more so, as the driver of the second car is unsighted.

Yes that caught my attention too during the rerun. I believe it was Kubica and another fella following him went out at turn 8 and then another the following lap... Could have been some oil spill on the track. Due to the heat and the rubber melting on the track surface that oil spill has not lasted too long. Otherwise it would have been an ice rink there

JayVee was poking fun. It was Kubika and Webber. They had some fun, good clean racing 'tween them

Bundy wrote:

Julian Mayo wrote:

Bundy wrote:
I think you blokes are starting to miss the point.

Out of the 8 drivers that finished in the points who drove THE BEST race????

Not 1st corner, or 22nd lap or 2nd stint etc etc etc.

Massa

Yes, FA did well to get passed MS. Yes he did a good job at holding MS at bay in the closing laps BUT the race is more than just a hand full of laps. You don't give extra points to blokes who do well for part of the race.

Bundy, I concur with what you say to the point where I voted Massa as the driver of the day.....and was the first to vote.
I am simply discussing the start with our erstwhile colleague, and expressing my humblest of humble opinions on that.

Fair enough....

Excellent

Julian Mayo wrote:
JayVee was poking fun. It was Kubika and Webber. They had some fun, good clean racing 'tween them

The rerun showed Barrichello all the time. Kapel must have liked it a lot It was fun to watch.

Julian Mayo wrote:in the race I watched, the commentators alluded to "something slippery at turn 8" a number of times. If two cars are line astern, and one car slides wide in something slippery, sure as god made little green apples, so will the second car......probably more so, as the driver of the second car is unsighted.

The commentators were down there at the track and verified it was something slippery didn't they
The second car was a fair way back and wasn't unsighted
Besides there were more than just two cars on the track and some of those other cars seemed to have managed to avoid the 'presumed' slipperiness of the track at that turn

JayVee wrote:

Julian Mayo wrote:in the race I watched, the commentators alluded to "something slippery at turn 8" a number of times. If two cars are line astern, and one car slides wide in something slippery, sure as god made little green apples, so will the second car......probably more so, as the driver of the second car is unsighted.

The commentators were down there at the track and verified it was something slippery didn't they
The second car was a fair way back and wasn't unsighted
Besides there were more than just two cars on the track and some of those other cars seemed to have managed to avoid the 'presumed' slipperiness of the track at that turn

Oh silly silly me, the commentators made it up so they could mention it several times, just for somethng to say.
I say the second car, in the incident I was referring to, was close enough to be unsighted. That is based on the speed, the angle of the nose of the car, the heat haze,and carbon dust from the car in front. Several other cars had "moments" following that incident. Given the track temp, which was 50deg plus, whatever was on the track would have dried shortly thereafter.
You have expressed your thoughts on the matter, I have expressed mine.
I see no need for further discussion on the matter, unless you wish to be bloody minded as usual.