Driver aids and technology. Your thoughts

Graham Ross · Post by **Graham Ross** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 10:51 am

julian mayo wrote:Bring back fully manual gear changes,and manual clutches, put in common, or control, ECUs and eliminate launch/traction control, pit stops for running repairs only, reduce aero to the minimum required to keep the cars on the ground, ban brake bias controls, pit to driver only commumications, run a control tyre,,increase the V8 engine size to 5 litres ( more weight in the back=more oversteer ) bring back steel brakes, increase the minimum dry weight of the cars, extend race distances by at least one third.
Sports car racing is the ideal venue for manufacturers to introduce technology, they can test for reliability as well at Le Mans etc.,.
Formula One should be about the best driver first, then the manufacturers championship a distant second.

Are these suggestions or are you describing the V8 Supercar series ?

This will simply not happen.

Formula 1 will always be about the best package. Never will it 100% driver or 100% car. The mix may change but over the 50 or so years, we've seen a lot of changes in technology yet we can still tell who are the best drivers out there.

The single tyre for a race this year has made the racing exciting. When did we last see 4 exciting races in a row ?

Julian Mayo · Post by **Julian Mayo** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 11:22 am

I agree Graham, I am merely posting a wish list in response to Rah's original post. Mind you, the other time I saw 4 exciting races in a row was the last 4 V8 suoercar races, and they have a mandatory tyre change within a specified pit window, and they run a control tyre. Food for thought?

Julian Mayo · Post by **Julian Mayo** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 11:25 am

Oh, and I have a bit of difficulty picking the differences in the top 5-6 drivers ability due to the disparity of the cars....how good is Narain?

Graham Ross · Post by **Graham Ross** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 11:30 am

I think controlling things in F1 isn't the way to go otherwise we'll end up with a Formula Ford ....

Almost nothing in F1 is controlled. There are specs and teams compete according to those specs. Why control the tyres and not the engines or the wings or the gearbox ? Even the fuel isn't controlled in F1

Julian Mayo · Post by **Julian Mayo** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 11:43 am

Graham Ross wrote:I think controlling things in F1 isn't the way to go otherwise we'll end up with a Formula Ford ....

Almost nothing in F1 is controlled. There are specs and teams compete according to those specs. Why control the tyres and not the engines or the wings or the gearbox ? Even the fuel isn't controlled in F1

I lat thing I want is over-regulation a la FF. I would just like to see more overtaking right thru the field, and I still have fond memories of leaders passing and repassing each other throughout a race. Moto GP can do it, why not F1?

JayVee · Post by **JayVee** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 7:39 pm

This topic has returned

And K-D's retro ideas are back as well

julian is joining too!

Guys why would you want to go back with F1 only ?

Would you go back to the old computers or no internet (heaven forbid

) or no widescreen TV

or no SMS or no electronic tolls

Keep the technology as long as the driver is in control of the accelerator, the transmission, the brakes and the steering.
The manual clutch, yes I can see how it could make it tougher for the driver but it won't change much and I think manual transmissions will dissapear from normal cars anyway

K-D · Post by **K-D** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 7:48 pm

Dear JayVee,

Apples and oranges.

What I am looking for is a race series, giving us overtaking and driving talent meaning as much as possible, and driver aids as little as possible.

The reason that Jacques Villenue is struggling compared to what his talent really make him able to. is that the driving aid of his car, actually fight him and mean that what is natural (and fast) to him, is stopped by the car.

This is the very same reason that Montoya have sofar failed to shine in F1, compared to have awesome he was in Indychampcars.

Being a "natural" is punished in the current F1.

I see no jsutifcation for the manufacturer of electronics and carbon brakes having more impact on the outcome of a F1 race, than the talents of a Schumahcer, Montoya, Villeneuve, Alonso or R?ikk?nnen.

NO ONE!!!! was ever as good at changing gears in a racecar than Michel Alboreto. I do not think that he ever missed a shift in his +20 years of racing, but in his hey-day in the mid 1980ies the shound of him changing up and down the gears was part of the "music", like a hot knife through butter.

Smooth, smooth, smoooootttthhhhhhh.....

Julian Mayo · Post by **Julian Mayo** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 7:54 pm

JayVee wrote:

Keep the technology as long as the driver is in control of the accelerator, the transmission, the brakes and the steering.

Precisely ,
the accelerator
transmission
brakes
steering
That is what I am saying

JayVee · Post by **JayVee** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 7:56 pm

julian mayo wrote:
JayVee wrote: Keep the technology as long as the driver is in control of the accelerator, the transmission, the brakes and the steering.

Precisely ,
the accelerator
transmission
brakes
steering
That is what I am saying

BUNDY HELP!

Please clarify the question as we ended up in agreement

Julian Mayo · Post by **Julian Mayo** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 7:58 pm

JayVee wrote:
julian mayo wrote:
JayVee wrote: Keep the technology as long as the driver is in control of the accelerator, the transmission, the brakes and the steering.

Precisely ,
the accelerator
transmission
brakes
steering
That is what I am saying
BUNDY HELP!

Please clarify the question as we ended up in agreement

HA! At this time of night! Why do you think he is called Bundy?

JayVee · Post by **JayVee** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 7:59 pm

K-D wrote:Dear JayVee,

Apples and oranges.

What I am looking for is a race series, giving us overtaking and driving talent meaning as much as possible, and driver aids as little as possible.

The reason that Jacques Villenue is struggling compared to what his talent really make him able to. is that the driving aid of his car, actually fight him and mean that what is natural (and fast) to him, is stopped by the car.

This is the very same reason that Montoya have sofar failed to shine in F1, compared to have awesome he was in Indychampcars.

Being a "natural" is punished in the current F1.

I see no jsutifcation for the manufacturer of electronics and carbon brakes having more impact on the outcome of a F1 race, than the talents of a Schumahcer, Montoya, Villeneuve, Alonso or R?ikk?nnen.

NO ONE!!!! was ever as good at changing gears in a racecar than Michel Alboreto. I do not think that he ever missed a shift in his +20 years of racing, but in his hey-day in the mid 1980ies the shound of him changing up and down the gears was part of the "music", like a hot knife through butter.

Smooth, smooth, smoooootttthhhhhhh.....

Yes K-D but that is now history. You can watch a Lap of the Gods for example and enjoy what they did then
We move on. If things stayed like it is F1 would not be the success it is today.

Nothing stays popular without evolution (except Beer, Coffee and Tea and few more things

)

JayVee · Post by **JayVee** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 8:01 pm

julian mayo wrote:
JayVee wrote:
julian mayo wrote: Precisely ,
the accelerator
transmission
brakes
steering
That is what I am saying
BUNDY HELP!

Please clarify the question as we ended up in agreement

HA! At this time of night! Why do you think he is called Bundy?

I means RAH (who created this thread)

RAH (Sounds like an Egyptian Pharoh!!) HELP!!

Julian Mayo · Post by **Julian Mayo** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 8:05 pm

JayVee wrote:
julian mayo wrote:
JayVee wrote:
BUNDY HELP!

Please clarify the question as we ended up in agreement

HA! At this time of night! Why do you think he is called Bundy?

I means RAH (who created this thread)

RAH (Sounds like an Egyptian Pharoh!!) HELP!!

HEE HEE HEE HEE, I wondered how long it would take!

Try saying Rah twice in quick succession and you may stumble on the long lost origins of the name. Something about deyifing a spheroid object, methinks

Kapel · Post by **Kapel** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 8:10 pm

One tyre rule has made this year the most exiciting since.....hmm 1998..

In 2005,Even with the electronic aids & driver aids we are seeing overtaking on track(so what if its the tyre that is causing it

)
For the first time after many years we are almost uncertain of the leader of the race in the last lap finishing as a winner.

This is a great season guys...

(need someone to fill in my footer)

Julian Mayo · Post by **Julian Mayo** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 8:15 pm

Kapel wrote:One tyre rule has made this year the most exiciting since.....hmm 1998..

In 2005,Even with the electronic aids & driver aids we are seeing overtaking on track(so what if its the tyre that is causing it )
For the first time after many years we are almost uncertain of the leader of the race in the last lap finishing as a winner.

This is a great season guys...

(need someone to fill in my footer)

I concur, Kappy. It is just a wish list on the thread that we have hi-jacked from the original Question posed by Bun..oops Rah