Driver aids and technology. Your thoughts

rah · Post by **rah** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 7:28 pm

Just wondering about your thoughts regarding driver aids and new technologies.

We see a lot more mistakes in drivers when driver aids are taken away and sometimes this leads to more exciting races. But is it the only thing to blame boring races on?

New technologies and driver aids have seen great improvement in driver safety both on and especially off the track. Would removing driver aids and the research into new technologies in F1 reduce the flow of these devices into road cars?

Please feel free to raise any other issues that come to mind. Like I have a choice anyway.

N. Jones · Post by **N. Jones** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 11:57 pm

What aids do drivers currently have? I'll be able to put down a more well thought out opinion of the subject once I am more knowlegable!

<T-K> · Post by **<T-K>** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 3:15 am

First of all i want to make it clear that formula 1 wouldnt be formula 1 if it werent for the technology involved......NOW....with that said lets move on.....

It all depends on which driver aids you want to get rid of........
I personally feel that if you take away certain things like traction control, you will be able to see the drivers true potential, and also reducing (certain) driver aids may level the playing field a bit.........
but there are still some aids that should be kept, the little things like adjustable brake biast etc.

But thats just me...........

Ed · Post by Ed » Mon Jun 06, 2005 4:26 pm

Here is a list of the most common driver aids and their status.

- Traction Control - Allowed and hard to police unless a standard ECU is fitted to all cars
- Power Steering - Allowed but cannot be electronically controlled or electrically powered
- Launch Control - Banned
- Fully Automatic Gearbox - Banned
- Brakes - Any system designed to prevent wheels from locking is banned

K-D · Post by **K-D** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 4:59 pm

I would like as little aid as possible on the cars, from Ed's list.

- Traction Control - Ban it, and write into the rules that any car found with TC be it test, practice or raceing will mean that the entire team will be thrown out of the championships, that should keep most from trying to run it.

- Power Steering - Fine, let it stay as is.

- Launch Control - Ban the semi-launch control developed by Renault, and now on all cars, where TC kicjs in at a set speed mirroring a state of launch control.

- Fully Automatic Gearbox - They should ban semi-automatic as well, let the driver change gears the oldfashioned way with clutches.

- Brakes - No help on braking.

rah · Post by **rah** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 10:59 pm

K-D wrote:I would like as little aid as possible on the cars, from Ed's list.

- Traction Control - Ban it, and write into the rules that any car found with TC be it test, practice or raceing will mean that the entire team will be thrown out of the championships, that should keep most from trying to run it.

- Power Steering - Fine, let it stay as is.

- Launch Control - Ban the semi-launch control developed by Renault, and now on all cars, where TC kicjs in at a set speed mirroring a state of launch control.

- Fully Automatic Gearbox - They should ban semi-automatic as well, let the driver change gears the oldfashioned way with clutches.

- Brakes - No help on braking.

I like your ideas. I am sure many here have similar thoughts. But what about future driving aids. Should we ban anything that reduces the skill needed to drive F1 cars?

Would doing this reduce the flow of modern technology into passenger vehicles or are manufactures capable of doing their own R & D?

K-D · Post by **K-D** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 11:10 pm

I am aware that some of the technology flow from F1 over to our own cars, but that to me is not a justification for F1 technology. I want F1 to be about the drivers, the skill of the drivers and as little as possible else.

If that mean all the manufacturers will leave, then goodbye. F1 have thrived without them and will thrive again.

I want to ban pitstops, and carbon brakes as well.

rah · Post by **rah** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 11:22 pm

I actually like pit stops. I don't like how they are used to pass a car, but I like something that envolves the team more. As for carbon brakes, how have they made the sport worse? I have never thought about it.

K-D · Post by **K-D** » Tue Jun 07, 2005 12:16 am

rah wrote:I actually like pit stops. I don't like how they are used to pass a car, but I like something that envolves the team more. As for carbon brakes, how have they made the sport worse? I have never thought about it.

If you like pitstops, and teamwork then you should follow sportscar racing. Formula racing is (to me) about racing the fastest possibe from start till end, using your talent to win based on bringing the car from the start and til then end with tires going from new to used, with fuel level going from high to low.

It is NOT a series of 2 or 3 sprints on super sticky tires, a neligeble fuel difference, racing without changin gears the "real" way.

The biggets problem that F1 has is to mcuh aero dynamic grip, and to short braking distance. Carbon brakes are close to incredible in how short a braking distance it will allow, and coupled with the extreme levels ofaero grip, we see close to no overtaking on track, which is why basically all moves for postion is through a weel executed pitstop.

If we take the pitstops out of the equation, then the moves for postion has to happen on track, and with a better change to the aerodynamics of the cars (read less grip) the braking distances will once more be so that actual overtaking can take place.

All the techno aids, and use of "modern" material have made for worse racing that what we had, so progress is not good for the sport of F1.

But there are posters here thinking that my "retro" class of F1 is not good, esxiting or even possible.

Julian Mayo · Post by **Julian Mayo** » Tue Jun 07, 2005 12:09 pm

Bring back fully manual gear changes,and manual clutches, put in common, or control, ECUs and eliminate launch/traction control, pit stops for running repairs only, reduce aero to the minimum required to keep the cars on the ground, ban brake bias controls, pit to driver only commumications, run a control tyre,,increase the V8 engine size to 5 litres ( more weight in the back=more oversteer

) bring back steel brakes, increase the minimum dry weight of the cars, extend race distances by at least one third.
Sports car racing is the ideal venue for manufacturers to introduce technology, they can test for reliability as well at Le Mans etc.,.
Formula One should be about the best driver first, then the manufacturers championship a distant second.

K-D · Post by **K-D** » Tue Jun 07, 2005 6:33 pm

Someone paid attention earlier this semester.

Julian Mayo · Post by **Julian Mayo** » Tue Jun 07, 2005 6:36 pm

K-D wrote:Someone paid attention earlier this semester.

Gotcha! back then u said no radio, and if you go back to those posts you will find nothing has changed

K-D · Post by **K-D** » Tue Jun 07, 2005 6:45 pm

julian mayo wrote:
K-D wrote:Someone paid attention earlier this semester.

Gotcha! back then u said no radio, and if you go back to those posts you will find nothing has changed

I merely suggest.

And I have an open mind to all sound, weel argumented countersuggestions.

You will find nothing has changed

F1greyhound · Post by **F1greyhound** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 12:43 am

This Championship is pretty exciting and there is not much you should change. I mean the often stressed overtaking issue might best be solved by steel brakes as K-D said. But generally overtaking manoeuvres are so spectacular in F1 because they are really difficult and rare. If overtaking was the issue more people would switch to watch MotoGP or Nascar where overtaking has become a permanent standard....

The pitstops are ok adding excitement but taking nothing away from the drivers ability.

The traction control and semi-automatic clutch dont reduce the effect of driver ability. Its the feeling for the car, the track and the speed plus instinct for dynamic situations which make one driver better than another with the difference between todays driver slim but decisive at the same time...

Julian Mayo · Post by **Julian Mayo** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 8:16 am

F1greyhound wrote:This Championship is pretty exciting and there is not much you should change. I mean the often stressed overtaking issue might best be solved by steel brakes as K-D said. But generally overtaking manoeuvres are so spectacular in F1 because they are really difficult and rare. If overtaking was the issue more people would switch to watch MotoGP or Nascar where overtaking has become a permanent standard....

The pitstops are ok adding excitement but taking nothing away from the drivers ability.

The traction control and semi-automatic clutch dont reduce the effect of driver ability. Its the feeling for the car, the track and the speed plus instinct for dynamic situations which make one driver better than another with the difference between todays driver slim but decisive at the same time...

I have seen too many potentially exciting race finishes stuffed in the pits and too many races become boring anti-climaxes after the last pit stops to agree with that Fig.
I think the removal of aids would highlight the differences in the drivers' ability, and I believe that a coupleof the existing drivers would be swiftly replaced by drivers with better instincts for the dynamics of the vehicle if those aids were not there

For example, steel brakes highlight those with the ability to brake very late,while the carbon brakes reduce the difference to millimetres, clutch and gears similarly highlight the differences for corner entry and exit.
I f you are stuffing the thing down the inside of someone, braking later, and not locking the rear wheels with your down shifts, then picking the right exit line and not losing the place you have just gained by too much wheel spin and oversteer, you are going to provide the spectators with better entertainment. Well thats IMHO