The 2010 German Grand Prix Thread

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Ed
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The 2010 German Grand Prix Thread

Post by Ed » Sat Jul 24, 2010 1:57 pm

This is the place to discuss everything related to the eleventh round of the 2010 season taking place at Hockenheim between the 23rd and the 25th of July.

To submit your 10 'n' Pole Picks for Germany click here, to register in the competition click here

Track Layout

Image

German GP - Preview (Courtesy: FIA)

As the FIA Formula One World Championship returns to the Hockenheim circuit for the first time since 2008, the battle for the drivers’ and constructors’ championships remains intense. With nine races to go, the four leading drivers are separated by only 24 points, while in the team chase McLaren leads Red Bull Racing by 278 points to 249.

The Hockenheimring, located 20 kilometres from the historic city of Heidelberg, first hosted the German Grand Prix in 1970 and this year will do so for the 32nd time. In its original guise, the circuit was a 6.8 km high-speed loop through surrounding forests and only an infield ‘stadium section’ slowed the cars to allow fans a close-up view. With the circuit in this configuration, Juan Pablo Montoya, driving a Williams BMW, set a pole position lap average of 250.4 km/h in qualifying for the 2001 German Grand Prix. The circuit was heavily revised for 2002, cutting its length to 4.6 km and reducing average lap times to around 220 km/h.

Throughout the 1990s and 2000s Hockenheim became noted as a hot-bed of support for Michael Schumacher and huge crowds are expected again this year for the return of the seven-time champion, with Mercedes. Schumacher is one of six German drivers to be racing ‘at home’, alongside Sebastian Vettel (Red Bull); Nico Rosberg (Mercedes); Adrian Sutil (Force India); Nico Hülkenberg (Williams) and Timo Glock (Virgin).

CHANGES TO THE CIRCUIT SINCE 2008

- The kerb and artificial grass have been extended on the exit of turn 12.

- The exit of turn 17 features an 80cm wide kerb which has been extended to the end of the existing concrete/grasscrete area. Artificial grass has been laid behind it.

- A two-row tyre barrier with a conveyor belt has been installed on the right after turn 12.

- An additional conveyor belt has been fitted after two rows on all six row barriers.

FAST FACTS: GERMAN GRAND PRIX

- German drivers have won a total of 110 grands prix, and of those Michael Schumacher has won 91 to date. The other German grand prix winners are: Sebastian Vettel (7); Ralf Schumacher (6); Heinz-Harald Frentzen (3); Wolfgang von Trips (2) and Jochen Mass (1).

- Michael Schumacher remains the only German driver to have won the FIA Formula One World Championship. He took his first titles in 1994-95 with Benetton, and from 2000-2004 won five consecutive drivers’ world championships with Ferrari.

- Only three circuits have hosted the German Grand Prix: Hockenheim (31), the Nürburgring (24) and a sole event at Berlin’s Avus circuit in 1959, which was won from pole and with fastest lap by Tony Brooks, in a Ferrari.

- Ernst Christ, a one-time assistant timekeeper, is credited with the idea of building a racing circuit in his home town, Hockenheim. With support from the town’s mayor, Philipp Klein, and the local council, the first motorbike race was held at the circuit then known as the Kurpfalzring on May 25, 1932.

- A major layout revision in 1938 created the fast Hockenheim loop that would remain fundamentally unchanged until the end of 2001. A €62m rebuild in time for the 2002 race gave the circuit its current form and increased spectator capacity from 83,000 to 120,000.

CIRCUIT DATA

Length of lap: 4.574km
Lap record: 1:13.780 - (Kimi Räikkönen, 2004, McLaren Mercedes)
Start line/finish line offset: 0.000km
Total number of race laps: 67
Total race distance: 306.458km
Pitlane speed limits: 60km/h during practice sessions; 100km/h during qualifying and race

The event timetable for the German Grand Prix.

Friday
1st Practice 10:00 local time - 08:00 GMT
2nd Practice 14:00 local time - 12:00 GMT

Saturday
Practice 11:00 local time - 9:00 GMT
Qualifying 14:00 local time - 12:00 GMT

Sunday
Race 14:00 local time - 12:00 GMT

For the latest Formula 1 News check out the F1 news page

Julian Mayo
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Post by Julian Mayo » Mon Jul 26, 2010 12:00 am

...................2002................
F for Ferrari.
F for F**k the fans
F for F**k the rules.
Alonso carried on as if he won the race. Make no mistake it was handed to him on a plate. I thought Vettel was the new Schumaker, especially after the start of this race. I like Alonso, but I did hope to see a tad more embarrassment on his face..
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Post by jacfan » Mon Jul 26, 2010 1:25 am

I have nothing against Alonso but that was a freaking farce!!!

How can Ferrari continue to get away with this crap. I agree with Julian... F the rules ... F the fans ..... F the integrity of F1.
I was so disgusted with the blatant team orders that I walked out of the room and did not even bother watching the end of the race.

As for Vettel.... someone needs to have a good look at how he starts all his races. The funny thing this time was that he let Massa through while trying to run Alonso off the track.
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Post by JayVee » Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:33 am

I didn't like it either and I don't think it would have really mattered in the end championship wise as Ferrari seem to be on the their way to dominate the rest of the season.

Alonso actually passed Massa earlier but was too cautious and gave the position back concerned that they would take each other out. I think he could have done it again as they were about to pass a number of backmarkers.

But we have seen this in the past from Ferrari and other teams as well. I think Kovalainen last year let Hamilton through 'cause he was faster'. Barrichello was 'stuffed up' a number of times last year. And Red Bull did it this year when the took Webber's wing and gave it to Vettel cause he was leading the championship.

Whilst I didn't enjoy this win and don't condone this action, it is really hard to draw a line especially that Ferrari's realistic chance for a championship this year is with Alonso and he was clearly faster than Massa and they are behind in the points table by a lot.
So what to do ? I think they did it in a crude way but doing it like this is better in my view than a disguised action like stuffing up Massa's strategy deliberatly or getting a wheel nut stuck or something like that.

The irony now is that Ferrari face the FIA with Jean Todt who was the person who ordered Barrichello to let Schumacher through in Austria :shock: :shock:

As for Vettel, well he really stuffed up Alonso's start driving him wide like that. He got away with it!!
I'm back and yes supporting Alonso "The Cute" in the Ferrari!

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Post by jacfan » Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:25 pm

And Red Bull did it this year when the took Webber's wing and gave it to Vettel cause he was leading the championship.
True but Webber did not sit idly by and accept that as the norm. He was furious.


You are 100% right about Vettel. He has been doing that a lot and it should be looked at. He seems to me to deliberately try to force the opposition, whoever that may be, off track.
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Post by GhoGho » Tue Jul 27, 2010 12:19 am

I agree that what Ferrari did was absolutely wrong and inexcusable (but understandable at the same time), but at least they did it openly.
They could have said something like:

"We are looking at a brake wear problem, try not to use the brakes too much"

or

"We need to save fuel, try fuel mix setting G7 and short shift"

or

"We have a tire wear issue, try to conserve them or they wont last the distance"

or

"We are seeing high engine temps, lower your revs please"

All of the above are similar to what we have heard from other teams before, McLaren and Red Bull included.
How is that any different?
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Andre_Brazil

Post by Andre_Brazil » Tue Jul 27, 2010 12:51 am

"F the rules ... F the fans ..... F the integrity of F1"

Of course I'm upset not only because I'm Brazilian but mainly because yesterday was a very special date to Massa as it was the first anniversary of the stupid accident he had at Hungaroring.

That said, I confess I do not watch F1 with the same pleasure I used to have on the 70s and 80s.

F1 is purely business now. Drivers are substituted during their contracts because someone else shows up with a wallet full of money. Team orders are not an Ferrari's exclusivity: McLaren did it at the same Germany GP when Kovaleinen gently allowed Hamilton pass so he could catch Piquet Jr. Brawn did the same last year. Massa was fired from Sauber because he wouldn't let Heildfeld through (also in a German GP if I'm not mistaken). Not to mention the Renault scandal... (Briatore was seen in Maranello last week :roll: )

Ferrari simply did it in a stupid way. I wonder if Santander's President being at the paddock had something to do with it... BUSINESS, my friends!
:(
Maybe Felipe's engineer should have used a coded phrase like "the stallion lost his balls" or "we´ll have chicken for dinner" instead of "can-you-con-firm-you-un-der-stand-that-mes-sa-ge?", followed by "sorry" and "you were magnanimous".

I wish FIA will take their points not because of what they did but because HOW they did it. They've insulted us all.

Andre_Brazil

Post by Andre_Brazil » Tue Jul 27, 2010 12:58 am

GhoGho wrote:I agree that what Ferrari did was absolutely wrong and inexcusable (but understandable at the same time), but at least they did it openly.
Well, the fact that they did it openly and then told everyone that they DIDN'T MEAN to do so is what makes me mad.

Anyway, people may not like them but there are rules that must be followed otherwise the championships would be a mess.

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Post by Julian Mayo » Tue Jul 27, 2010 6:43 am

Massa made it obvious.
He was in no mood for "we are battling a brake problem" crap.
To not permit him to exorcise the demons of last year was inexcusable.
The only times Alonso closed were when backmarkers impeded Massa.
Tis only a matter of time til Vettel causes a massive start line shunt with his Schuey Starts.
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Post by AndyA » Tue Jul 27, 2010 5:55 pm

We didn't watch the end of the race, but instead walked down to the pub, muttering darkly to each other. Apart from anything else I was gutted that the team boss didn't have the guts to make the call himself. I'm afraid I was secretly hoping that by the time we got there, Alonso would suffer a mechanical failure or lose his front wing hitting a back-marker.

My mood was not improved because the post-race coverage was on all the screens rather than just the small one round the corner where you can ignore it, and we were forced to listen to Ferrari's Oscar-winning performance.

Yes, there have always been team orders, yes, the regulation is bad, and is completely unenforceable, but as EJ said on the BBC, it *is* a rule, and I reckon that this is the most blatant infringement I've seen since the rule was introduced. At least the fine was 100,000 this time rather than the measly 7,000 they got fined last time, but any team other than Ferrari would at least have lost the points for the race. Let's hope the FIA does what it's supposed to.

regards
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Post by jido » Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:24 pm

I don't know who of Felipe or Fernando would have won if they were really racing each other, but I am not sure I care. Neither got Driver of the Day from me.

Instead I voted Petrov who finally arrived in the points ;)

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Post by jacfan » Tue Jul 27, 2010 11:38 pm

Well it seems to me that everyone is pissed off about this in one way or another.

Yes F1 is a business but like all businesses it wise to keep the consumers (fans) happy. IF the fans aren't happy then no sponsor in his right mind would want to be associated with it and without fans or sponsor where the hell would F1 be?
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Post by JayVee » Wed Jul 28, 2010 7:55 am

This may sound crazy but if they allow team orders and it becomes part of the expectation then no one would be upset. In Cycling, there is a team effort to push for one driver. I think the same can be applied here.

I don't think it is the ideal situation and I would not like to see it happen often but rather than disguise it or do it blatently I would let the teams manage it with their drivers.

Once it is expected, I don't think the fans would be upset.

To me this is much better than having two teammates take each other out
I'm back and yes supporting Alonso "The Cute" in the Ferrari!

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Post by GhoGho » Thu Jul 29, 2010 3:18 am

JayVee wrote:This may sound crazy but if they allow team orders and it becomes part of the expectation then no one would be upset. In Cycling, there is a team effort to push for one driver. I think the same can be applied here.

I don't think it is the ideal situation and I would not like to see it happen often but rather than disguise it or do it blatently I would let the teams manage it with their drivers.

Once it is expected, I don't think the fans would be upset.

To me this is much better than having two teammates take each other out
Team orders have always been a part of F1 only having been outlawed since 2003 with no real means of policing it.

I would prefer it if team orders were allowed, that way there would be no BS radio communications pretending to play within the rules as I mentioned before.

I had no issues with the 2002 incident where Rubens had to let Michael past and the way he did it only served to show that on the day he was the better driver, but had to yield to team orders. That to me is far more real than all the other contrived stuff we get handed and expected to believe.
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Post by Jim Watt » Thu Jul 29, 2010 3:35 am

:D Greetings Chaps.

I am, of course, over the moon about Ferrari seemingly having solved the problem of their sleds. And as to the controversy about 'team orders,' I have to say it's hard to argue against Luca's effort to help his number one driver. Most of the screaming comes from Ferrari haters; and they wouldn't care about the same kind of shenanigans from McLaren or Red Bull.

In fact, had it happened with Red Bull, there would have been more reason to object, (especially since the boy wonder has already run into his team-mate once trying to overtake him!). Because, with Red Bull, the numbers show a real parity between the two drivers (even with Mark's having one more win). Vettel has out-qualyed his mate 6 times & Webbo has out-qualyed him 5 times; it's no surprise their points are exactly equal at 136. So it would have seemed much more 'wrong' to have them favor one over the other.

But in the case of Alonso v. Massa, the results are WAY skewed in the Spaniard's favor:
so far this season lil phil out-qualyed Fernando only 3 times, while Fernando out-qualyed Mass 8 times. And in the matter of race results, the points are even more out of balance: Alonso, at 123 points, is 34 behind Hamilton, the leader; while little phil at 85, is 72 back.

You can talk about how the chassis favors one driver more than the other all you want, blah blah, but F1 drivers are hired to perform with whatever machinery they're given and Alonso is a two time WDC whereas Massa, though a Brazilian, is more reminiscent of Rubens than of Ayrton.

In fact, what would be REALLY fun would be for Montezeulo to 'eat' lil' phil's contract (as he did with Kimi's!) and hire Kubica to partner the Spaniard next year. Now THAT would sell some tickets! We'd have THREE teams (McLaren, Ferrari & Red Bull) with real fighting team-mates!

As to the silver Mercs? I'm a Ross Brawn fan and I'm happy for Nico, but they need a partner for him. Maybe Michael will learn from Lance Armstrong's example and just hang it up. Every race he enters only makes his statistics go down.

So here's to several more Ferrari one-twos, to spice up the end of the season! Christian Horner seems determined to give both Drivers' and Manufacturers' trophies to McLaren, so it's time for the red cars to ride to the rescue and I, for one, don't care about the order so long as they maximize the points. As to leaving the room because of team orders; I'd say its more likely folks head for the local because they fear the old days of red car one-twos are coming back!

Jim Watt
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