FIA / GPMA - F1 from 2008 (FIA and GPMA in agreement!)

K-D · Post by **K-D** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 2:40 pm

julian mayo wrote:Red Bull = Ferrari "B" Team.

Nonsense.

Julian Mayo · Post by **Julian Mayo** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 2:58 pm

K-D wrote:
julian mayo wrote:Red Bull = Ferrari "B" Team.
Nonsense.

mlittle · Post by **mlittle** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 4:54 pm

No, julian's right. Red Bull may get Ferrari engines, but first choice will still go to Scuderia Ferrari, not Red Bull.

K-D · Post by **K-D** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 5:34 pm

mlittle wrote:No, julian's right. Red Bull may get Ferrari engines, but first choice will still go to Scuderia Ferrari, not Red Bull.

Which is not the meaning carried in his post.

From next season all teams (except Minardi) will run 2,4 L V8 engines. So from at the start of the season, Red Bull and Ferrari will have the same engine evolution. I would imagine that Ferrari during the course of the season, will get the updates and new evolutions faster than Red Bull, but they do so at the risk of having technical problems. You can look at McLaren for how getting new updated engines into races, can severely effect the outcome of the championships.

Red Bull have taken the commercial decision to buy engines from Ferrari, they know what they are buying, and they know the terms that they are buying under.

Julian may come and post later that he did not mean to imply, that Red Bull will be a designated B team, who will do all that Ferrari ask them, and will not impede a Ferrari driver on track, and that any political opinion by Ferrari will be shared by Red Bull.

If he does, I will not believe him.

Therefore his post was nonsense.

JayVee · Post by **JayVee** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 7:58 pm

K-D wrote:Julian may come and post later that he did not mean to imply, that Red Bull will be a designated B team, who will do all that Ferrari ask them, and will not impede a Ferrari driver on track, and that any political opinion by Ferrari will be shared by Red Bull.

If he does, I will not believe him.

Therefore his post was nonsense.

K-D, there you go again. You make sense a lot of times but when it comes to Michael/Ferrari and the FIA you choose to ignore the facts.

Before this year Sauber where a Ferrari B team. Their drivers would move quicker when being lapped by Ferrari drivers rather than other teams and Peter Sauber never disagreed with Ferrari in any political opinion. It was only when he knew he will not use Ferrari engines and switch to BMW that Sauber's stance changed. Such was the shock when he decided to sign the testing limit but he knew he won't be renewing with Ferrari before then.

The same applies to Red Bull. They get an engine deal and now they agree to extend Concorde. It was obvious! Clearly they knew they were going to sign Concorde before getting the Ferrari engines otherwise no deal. You may chose to think otherwise, that is your choice of course but that won't make you right

K-D · Post by **K-D** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 9:13 pm

JayVee wrote:
K-D wrote:Julian may come and post later that he did not mean to imply, that Red Bull will be a designated B team, who will do all that Ferrari ask them, and will not impede a Ferrari driver on track, and that any political opinion by Ferrari will be shared by Red Bull.

If he does, I will not believe him.

Therefore his post was nonsense.

K-D, there you go again. You make sense a lot of times but when it comes to Michael/Ferrari and the FIA you choose to ignore the facts.

Before this year Sauber where a Ferrari B team. Their drivers would move quicker when being lapped by Ferrari drivers rather than other teams and Peter Sauber never disagreed with Ferrari in any political opinion. It was only when he knew he will not use Ferrari engines and switch to BMW that Sauber's stance changed. Such was the shock when he decided to sign the testing limit but he knew he won't be renewing with Ferrari before then.

The same applies to Red Bull. They get an engine deal and now they agree to extend Concorde. It was obvious! Clearly they knew they were going to sign Concorde before getting the Ferrari engines otherwise no deal. You may chose to think otherwise, that is your choice of course but that won't make you right

Nonsense.

JayVee · Post by **JayVee** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 9:40 pm

K-D wrote: Nonsense.

Just shows how weak your argument is

Still looking for those "Force Majeure" Tyre rules are we

K-D · Post by **K-D** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 9:53 pm

JayVee wrote:
K-D wrote: Nonsense.

Just shows how weak your argument is - I actually argued my argument before you barged in. Your response is a spin of statements without anything but your own emotional values.

Still looking for those "Force Majeure" Tyre rules are we - Yes, but I have been tied up with various projects, so have not been through everything yet. And can only spend evenings on this.

K-D · Post by **K-D** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 11:48 pm

Midland have signed on with the FIA sanctioned series today.

?Bernie Ecclestone was instrumental in bringing Midland to Formula 1 and from the very beginning (Midland owner) Alex Shnaider was supportive of his vision for the future,? said team boss Colin Kolles.

?We are happy and proud to be in at the beginning of this process which will shape Formula 1?s long term future.?

What kind of arguments will be used to explain how the Midland / Toyota relationships, is completely different from the alleged Saubr, Red Bull / Ferrari relationships???

Ed · Post by Ed » Thu Jul 21, 2005 12:26 am

Thanks K-D,

Jordan have confirmed they have signed a revised Concorde Agreement with FOA until 2012.

Full Statement

So far Ferrari, Red Bull and now Jordan have signed with FOA to compete in the Formula One World Championship from 2008 to 2012.

Julian Mayo · Post by **Julian Mayo** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 8:25 am

Red Bull: Ferrari Engine, Bridgestone tyres, Concorde Signatory,= Ferrari "B"team.

Julian Mayo · Post by **Julian Mayo** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 8:29 am

K-D wrote:
mlittle wrote:No, julian's right. Red Bull may get Ferrari engines, but first choice will still go to Scuderia Ferrari, not Red Bull.
Which is not the meaning carried in his post.

From next season all teams (except Minardi) will run 2,4 L V8 engines. So from at the start of the season, Red Bull and Ferrari will have the same engine evolution. I would imagine that Ferrari during the course of the season, will get the updates and new evolutions faster than Red Bull, but they do so at the risk of having technical problems. You can look at McLaren for how getting new updated engines into races, can severely effect the outcome of the championships.

Red Bull have taken the commercial decision to buy engines from Ferrari, they know what they are buying, and they know the terms that they are buying under.

Julian may come and post later that he did not mean to imply, that Red Bull will be a designated B team, who will do all that Ferrari ask them, and will not impede a Ferrari driver on track, and that any political opinion by Ferrari will be shared by Red Bull.

If he does, I will not believe him.

Therefore his post was nonsense.

KD, your power is awesome. If I post something that you do not believe, it is nonsense. Awesome.

mlittle · Post by **mlittle** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 8:50 am

K-D, I'll stand by what I said in my earlier posting. Even though Ferrari and Red Bull will both receive Ferrari engines for 2006, Ferrari'll still be the factory team and Red Bull won't, the same as w/Ferrari and Sauber this year.

rah · Post by **rah** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 4:29 pm

I think calling Red Bull a Ferrari B team is a bit of a stretch. I think Red Bull have had a middle of the road aproach from the start. I am sorry, but just too conclusions being drawn from too little info.

K-D · Post by **K-D** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 5:39 pm

mlittle wrote:K-D, I'll stand by what I said in my earlier posting. Even though Ferrari and Red Bull will both receive Ferrari engines for 2006, Ferrari'll still be the factory team and Red Bull won't, the same as w/Ferrari and Sauber this year.

I don't think I wrote any differently.

But in my view a "B-team" is not carrying the same meaning as "A team having a customer engine".

The implication that Sauber have, and Red Bull will be acting as the willing tools of Ferrari is a poor, arrogant view on independent businesses, that have and are investing seveal hundres of million dollars in the sport.

As I wrote. If Red Bull are the willing tools of Ferrari, why is there no such sinister motives in the Toyota / Jordan relationship?? It is a feeble attempt at painting Ferrari worse, an attempt to find cheap excuses for the utter dominance that ferrari have had the past 6 seasons.

If a poster want to argue the Sauber and Red Bull relationship, they should do better than the drivel we have seen sofar.