The 2006 Hungarian Grand Prix

[Julian Mayo]

JAYVEE, what age are you?

[gkaytaz]

Anyone remember the 1997 Hungaroring? The one where Hill almost got a win in his lowly Arrows but was only narrowly beaten by Villeneuve (Jacques) driving a Williams? Now that was good racin'. If memory serves Schumi was third or fourth that day.

Anyone?

[Julian Mayo]

Anyone remember the 1997 Hungaroring? The one where Hill almost got a win in his lowly Arrows but was only narrowly beaten by Villeneuve (Jacques) driving a Williams? Now that was good racin'. If memory serves Schumi was third or fourth that day.

Anyone?

cough, cough, dam the dust, cobwebs etc
Found it, cough.......

,
Yup, right up there with some of Giles drives...........NOW there was a Rain meister
As was Piers Courage

[gkaytaz]

cough, cough, dam the dust, cobwebs etc
Found it, cough.......

,
Yup, right up there with some of Giles drives...........NOW there was a Rain meister
As was Piers Courage

Well, I am not exactly an old geezer. It's just that I have been watching F1 since 1980. Alan Jones (an Aussie) was the champion that year. I am quite fond of solid races of the past.

[Julian Mayo]

cough, cough, dam the dust, cobwebs etc
Found it, cough.......

,
Yup, right up there with some of Giles drives...........NOW there was a Rain meister
As was Piers Courage

Well, I am not exactly an old geezer. It's just that I have been watching F1 since 1980. Alan Jones (an Aussie) was the champion that year. I am quite fond of solid races of the past.

AJ came back home, got into V8 racing, thumped another driver after a race, coppped a fine, sulked
My first taste of F1, or its closest kin was...... Stirling Moss n Jack Brabham going head to head ( I was sitting on my Dads Shoulders)

[JayVee]

Actually I can prove it, in each of the first 17 laps before Kimi and Button pitted, Button was fastest 5 times, sweet FA was fastest 5 times and Kimi was fastest 7 times. After they pitted sweet FA was fastest for 6 laps until Kimi crashed. After the safety car, for the 21 laps until sweet FA went out button was fastest 15 times and sweet FA was fastest 6 times. These are facts not opinions and sweet FA does not stand out amongst them.

After the first lap sweet FA made up 9 positions, Shumi made up 7, is two places the difference between regenmeister and has-been?

The 30 second lead you trumpet was only due to the fact that Kimi and Button had pitted, if sweet FA hadnt been penalised and filled his tank up he would probably have been on a very similar strategy to the other two which would have resulted in him still being behind after the first round of stops.

You are using fastest laps to support your argument. This assumes they were all in clear air. When you are trying to pass cars you will not be setting fastest lap times. Alonso started from 15th.

That other driver started 11th, Alonso 15th. That other driver made a lot of positions on the first lap then DROPPED back. Alonso made a lot of positions and continued passing other cars until he led.

But I repeat what I said earlier, in my opinion Alonso's move from 15th to leading the race in wet conditions will go down in history. If you don't agree that is fine.

Again here's a fact, it was more than just a brake test, as he went past DB on the pit straight he swerved in front of him. This probably occured at somewhere between 200 and 300 kmh. Not only is it a stupid thing to do you have to ask yourself why did he do it.

My point is simply that you expect us to accept that, "He got penalised, end of story." in this case, but in cases where MS has been penalised, as far as you are concerend it most definitely isnt the end of the story. Yes, the two cases I quoted were more serious transgressions, but so were the penalties applied in each case. The same system was operating in all these cases. Feel free to trot out the conspriacy theories here, but if I recall you were criticising someone else for trotting out conspiracy theories earlier.

I said it was his first penalty/mistake/error and when he repeats it I'll have something to say.

Glad that you admitted those were more serious!

You got me there, I did misread your post. You also called him a loser because he got angry with DC in the pits. Sweet FA gets angry at 250 kmh and he doesn't get called a loser, Schumi gets angry at 0kmh and does. Go figure.

I clearly stated why I called him a loser, he doesn't accept reponsibility for his mistakes. Don't try to twist my words

[JayVee]

Anyone remember the 1997 Hungaroring? The one where Hill almost got a win in his lowly Arrows but was only narrowly beaten by Villeneuve (Jacques) driving a Williams? Now that was good racin'. If memory serves Schumi was third or fourth that day.

Anyone?

Yes I remember that one

Everyone was surprised by Hill in the Arrows and he only lost because his car failed him on the last lap or two and Villeneuve won.

[gkaytaz]

AJ came back home, got into V8 racing, thumped another driver after a race, coppped a fine, sulked
My first taste of F1, or its closest kin was...... Stirling Moss n Jack Brabham going head to head ( I was sitting on my Dads Shoulders)

That'd be 1960-ish? I watched some of those races on tape. One of my faves from that period of time was 1961 Monaco (100 laps!). Moss was going at it with three Ferraris. Good old Brucey (McLaren) was there too. Funny, it was only last year I learned that Bruce McLaren is New Zealander and not Australian.

[gkaytaz]

Anyone remember the 1997 Hungaroring? The one where Hill almost got a win in his lowly Arrows but was only narrowly beaten by Villeneuve (Jacques) driving a Williams? Now that was good racin'. If memory serves Schumi was third or fourth that day.

Anyone?

Yes I remember that one

Everyone was surprised by Hill in the Arrows and he only lost because his car failed him on the last lap or two and Villeneuve won.

Yeah. His throttle was gone or something to that effect. I was so pissed that he had to slow down, Hill really had deserved that win. Would have been really cool to see an Arrows get the #1 on the podium. Happens so rarely nowadays. Last I recall was Fisi getting the win in Interlagos 03 because of the red flag situation. But then that doesn't really count... Hmm, that means since Panis' 96 Monaco win there hadn't been a real underdog winner. Only a handful of cars had finished the race that day. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

By the way JayVee would you be so kind to accept my apologies for my reply to Julian Mayo's comment on the marriage thing? I am new here and didn't know you were sensitive about the subject. Won't happen again.

[Jim Watt]

Wow! I just spent an hour reading through all these posts about whether or not one driver or another --or one drive or another-- is/was/would have been (a) the worst example or (b) the best example of true racing skill or gentlemanly sporstmanship or clever tactical thinking. What I ended with is the not at all original insight that those of us who put up with Max Mosely and Bernie E. AND getting up at all kinds of odd hours of the night or day to drag ourselves to television screens...

ACTUALLY CARE who wins. And how.

a beautiful drive, tho', is a beautiful drive --even when it's managed by the person you hate more than anything.

but it is SO MUCH more beautiful when you LOVE the driver!

or (in my case) the car.

and yes; it's painted red. and there's no logic or anything to it.

i loved the silver mercs in the olden days, too

and i especially loved the british racing green machines (even the BRMs) which are, alas, now history

and i certainly respect those who manage to get on with the job and keep their cool.

which makes the big debate between MS and FA so funny to me since BOTH drivers, like us, actually CARE who wins...

and so BOTH drivers lose it

in public

and, of course, we forgive our lad

and curse the other fellow

and wait with great frustration when it's THREE WHOLE WEEKS for the next race!



Jim Watt

[Julian Mayo]

Wow! I just spent an hour reading through all these posts about whether or not one driver or another --or one drive or another-- is/was/would have been (a) the worst example or (b) the best example of true racing skill or gentlemanly sporstmanship or clever tactical thinking. What I ended with is the not at all original insight that those of us who put up with Max Mosely and Bernie E. AND getting up at all kinds of odd hours of the night or day to drag ourselves to television screens...

ACTUALLY CARE who wins. And how.

a beautiful drive, tho', is a beautiful drive --even when it's managed by the person you hate more than anything.

but it is SO MUCH more beautiful when you LOVE the driver!

or (in my case) the car.

and yes; it's painted red. and there's no logic or anything to it.

i loved the silver mercs in the olden days, too

and i especially loved the british racing green machines (even the BRMs) which are, alas, now history

and i certainly respect those who manage to get on with the job and keep their cool.

which makes the big debate between MS and FA so funny to me since BOTH drivers, like us, actually CARE who wins...

and so BOTH drivers lose it

in public

and, of course, we forgive our lad

and curse the other fellow

and wait with great frustration when it's THREE WHOLE WEEKS for the next race!



Jim Watt

It makes me a cranky bear

[Julian Mayo]

AJ came back home, got into V8 racing, thumped another driver after a race, coppped a fine, sulked
My first taste of F1, or its closest kin was...... Stirling Moss n Jack Brabham going head to head ( I was sitting on my Dads Shoulders)

That'd be 1960-ish? I watched some of those races on tape. One of my faves from that period of time was 1961 Monaco (100 laps!). Moss was going at it with three Ferraris. Good old Brucey (McLaren) was there too. Funny, it was only last year I learned that Bruce McLaren is New Zealander and not Australian.

So you have been quietly promoting the "War of the Anzacs" all these years, huh ?
An interesting thing about Bruce, is that as a young person, he beat the then often fatal Polio disease. He wore a leg brace for many years (fearsome contractions in those days) and was left with one leg a tad shorter than the other.

[gkaytaz]

So you have been quietly promoting the "War of the Anzacs" all these years, huh ?

Yeah, unwittingly

An interesting thing about Bruce, is that as a young person, he beat the then often fatal Polio disease. He wore a leg brace for many years (fearsome contractions in those days) and was left with one leg a tad shorter than the other.

I know about his limping. Didn't know the cause though. Thanks for the info. Come to think of it I remember that Graham Hill was limping too. In a recent documentary about F1 I found out that Alan Stacey (Stirling Moss and Jim Clark's teammate) had an artificial lower leg and foot. He died in Spa 1960 cuz a bird struck him in the face and made him lose control.

[jacfan]

Anyone remember the 1997 Hungaroring? The one where Hill almost got a win in his lowly Arrows but was only narrowly beaten by Villeneuve (Jacques) driving a Williams? Now that was good racin'. If memory serves Schumi was third or fourth that day.

Anyone?

Boy do I remember that! Being a JV (not JayVee the girl but JV the driver) fan I was happy to see JV win but I did feel for Damon. I would still have that race on tape.

[gkaytaz]

Boy do I remember that! Being a JV (not JayVee the girl but JV the driver) fan I was happy to see JV win but I did feel for Damon. I would still have that race on tape.

I have/do not support(ed) a particular driver but there is this "support the underdog" syndrome deep inside me The wife on the other hand has the "support the best-looking" syndrome (not very deep)