The 2009 Spanish Grand Prix Thread

[Julian Mayo]

........................."There was nothing handed to Michael easily"............



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[mlittle]

........................."There was nothing handed to Michael easily"............



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Agreed.

[JayVee]

Jayvee,

not trying to brush aside your evidence. Just not sure you can call it evidence. For whatever reason we dont know or understand RUBENS had this 12 lap stint.

As I said, I dont believe that at this point of the championship BRAWN would risk to lose a safe 1-2 only to give 2 points to JENSON.

Master of deception? Come on....Not everything that had been printed in tabloids is the truth......In fact most of it is made up.....but I know you know that.......there was nothing handed to MICHAEL easily......Hard work.......like FERNANDO and now possibly JENSON.......

You are happy to adopt the notion that a 3 stop was the optimum strategy even though no other top team adopted it but you cannot even speculate why Barrichello was told to stop after 12 laps of what appears to be an 18 lap stint. Don't you think that if Barrichello had a problem he or the team would have said ?
It is a pity that I can't read Portuguese as I am sure they have raised this. Sadly just because Button was on the receiving end, no British media has raised this point. I just hope someone asks Barrichello this question come Monaco

As for Ross Brawn, I don't read tabloids but it doesn't take a genious to figure out that this man was behind all the strategy calls when Michael was driving for Ferrari. Some were brilliant of course but others were really terrible and made the team and the sport look really really silly.

But I think it is good that you admit things were handed to Michael whether easily or not so easliy

Alonso is a Gentleman and a Sportsman and plays fair on and off the track, please don't compare him to Michael, it won't stick no matter what.

[Julian Mayo]

........................."There was nothing handed to Michael easily"............



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just to qualify this post, and make sure I am not misunderstood
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And my basis for this???

Go say that to Irvine, or The Barra, and we will take up a collection for your family to erect a nice Headstone.

[jido]

It is a pity that I can't read Portuguese as I am sure they have raised this. Sadly just because Button was on the receiving end, no British media has raised this point.

I can read some Portuguese, where would it be discussed you think?

[Julian Mayo]

It is a pity that I can't read Portuguese as I am sure they have raised this. Sadly just because Button was on the receiving end, no British media has raised this point.

I can read some Portuguese, where would it be discussed you think?

Right here, compadre, Portugese, n , spanish ain't that far apart.

[F1greyhound]

Jayvee,

where did I say 3 stops was the optimum? I just said RUBENS still had a chance of winning even on 3 stops if all stints had gone well for him. BRAWN planned for 3 stops and they could have finished 1-2 even with JENSON on 3 stops, we will never know if that would have worked out and in which order.
Re.FERNANDO, we had this discussion when he was at MCLAREN, he was not that great a sportsman then and this act in qualifying blocking his own team mate from refuelling in time was some feat. Dont remember anything like that from MICHAEL who worked harder than most for his success.

Julian,

regarding EDDIE and RUBENS, what could one say to them re.MICHAEL? They profited more from him than vice versa(winning car and strategy, victory gifts..). Dont bring up those fairy tales mainly produced by Irvine on how often he handed races to MICHAEL. All crap, never matched him, same sort of No.1 status as MIKA vs.DAVID, KIMI vs.DAVID, FERNANDO vs.JARNO/FISICO/NELSO, the list is endless because sometimes a team doesnt find or want 2 No.1 drivers.

MICHAEL never got in the situation like AYRTON vs.ALAIN or FERNANDO vs.LEWIS or KIMI vs.FELIPE. It is cheap to blame him for that. Neither NELSON, MARTIN, JOHNNY, EDDIE, RUBENS or FELIPE(that was quite close, thanks to FELIPE not anyone else...) were asked to underperform, however they couldnt match him under normal conditions.

But this is opinions, I wont change your mind....

[Julian Mayo]

Just a thought ! Why Portugese anyway????

[Julian Mayo]

Jayvee,

where did I say 3 stops was the optimum? I just said RUBENS still had a chance of winning even on 3 stops if all stints had gone well for him. BRAWN planned for 3 stops and they could have finished 1-2 even with JENSON on 3 stops, we will never know if that would have worked out and in which order.
Re.FERNANDO, we had this discussion when he was at MCLAREN, he was not that great a sportsman then and this act in qualifying blocking his own team mate from refuelling in time was some feat. Dont remember anything like that from MICHAEL who worked harder than most for his success.

Julian,

regarding EDDIE and RUBENS, what could one say to them re.MICHAEL? They profited more from him than vice versa(winning car and strategy, victory gifts..). Dont bring up those fairy tales mainly produced by Irvine on how often he handed races to MICHAEL. All crap, never matched him, same sort of No.1 status as MIKA vs.DAVID, KIMI vs.DAVID, FERNANDO vs.JARNO/FISICO/NELSO, the list is endless because sometimes a team doesnt find or want 2 No.1 drivers.

MICHAEL never got in the situation like AYRTON vs.ALAIN or FERNANDO vs.LEWIS or KIMI vs.FELIPE. It is cheap to blame him for that. Neither NELSON, MARTIN, JOHNNY, EDDIE, RUBENS or FELIPE(that was quite close, thanks to FELIPE not anyone else...) were asked to underperform, however they couldnt match him under normal conditions.

But this is opinions, I wont change your mind....

Precisely....opinions...to be discussed, extrapolated, venerated,rebutted,..whatever,........... always in a friendly manner.
I take huge exception to the fact that anyone can possibly think that one M. Schumaker was a fair player, because......... .IN MY OPINION............he was the foulest of the foul..........the car park was a perfect example...........again imho...............
so I will not go into the number of races where I have turned off the LATE NIGHT, EARLY MORNING televsion in disgust, as Irvine et al have had to slow down by 10 seconds a lap, (and I am quite sure JayVee will provide the statistics.....never take that Lady on, and I do mean Lady, unless you know your facts,..my eyebrows still have not quite recovered from their last singeing).
IMHO Michael never got into that situation because he always had a veto on who drove with him in Scuderia Veloce, it was only when Massa came along and surprised him, that he ever felt threatened, and..again imho.he nearly destroyed Massa, because he, Michael, is a master of mind games (ask Ralf ).....and again........imho..he quit when he did because he did not quite destroy Massa, whom I now rate as one of the five fastest drivers out there.

[jacfan]

Why are we still going on and on about Michael Schumacher and his exploits? I was happy when he finally retired.... I thought we might have something better to chat about but NO someone has to drag him back into the chat!!! Boring!!
Poor Rubens once again relegated to supporting No. 1. No wonder he looked pissed off on the podium and in the interview.

[Julian Mayo]

Why are we still going on and on about Michael Schumacher and his exploits? I was happy when he finally retired.... I thought we might have something better to chat about but NO someone has to drag him back into the chat!!! Boring!!
Poor Rubens once again relegated to supporting No. 1. No wonder he looked pissed off on the podium and in the interview.

I have strawberries, n blankie is darned, would you care to discuss this in private.........????

[F1greyhound]

AYRTON, MICHAEL, FERNANDO, LEWIS........all BIG guys have BIG egos and they at times have to take the piss. They are no saints but they only think of winning and sometimes go over the top. Unsurprisingly.

Julian, I really wonder how often you might have turned off the TV for EDDIE or RUBENS slowing down by 10secs per lap....)) Come on..))))

By the way the carpark was serious s#$% and I couldnt believe it, a moment of madness and a terrible idea. However this was followed by one of the greatest ever drives through the streets of Monaco, fram last to 5th! Nobody else would have achieved that....

Back on topic, it is purely in RUBENS hands to outqualify JENSON in Monaco and go for the victory, bet my hat he wont be stopped by ROSS...

He was unhappy, yes, but he is responsible for not being a No.1 himself....

[JayVee]

Jayvee,

where did I say 3 stops was the optimum? I just said RUBENS still had a chance of winning even on 3 stops if all stints had gone well for him. BRAWN planned for 3 stops and they could have finished 1-2 even with JENSON on 3 stops, we will never know if that would have worked out and in which order.
Re.FERNANDO, we had this discussion when he was at MCLAREN, he was not that great a sportsman then and this act in qualifying blocking his own team mate from refuelling in time was some feat. Dont remember anything like that from MICHAEL who worked harder than most for his success.
)

Ok, you didn't say it was optimum but you defended it. You said "In fact both were on 3 stops which could have been a good strategy given the ridiculous performance in this GP of the prime tyres"

Why did they put Barrichello on the 'ridiculous prime tyres' for a whole 19 laps yet his second stint was only 12 laps ? Still no explanation ??

As for Alonso, well you just picked the end of what actually happened. If you recall (and I am sure you do) that it was agreed that in Hungary it was Alonso's turn to do the extra lap yet Hamilton went out first and depsite calls on the radio to let Alonso past, he ignored them and so Alonso paid him back. Hamilton was the one who started it so don't blame Alonso.
I have yet to see an unsportsman like action from Alonso that he initiated.

[JayVee]

Why are we still going on and on about Michael Schumacher and his exploits? I was happy when he finally retired.... I thought we might have something better to chat about but NO someone has to drag him back into the chat!!! Boring!!
Poor Rubens once again relegated to supporting No. 1. No wonder he looked pissed off on the podium and in the interview.

Agreed, we've had enough of Michael

Barrichello was clearly hard done by, what more can a guy do ? Ross basically stuffed him up by calling him in 6 laps early so that he doesn't threaten Button. What a shame

[JayVee]

It is a pity that I can't read Portuguese as I am sure they have raised this. Sadly just because Button was on the receiving end, no British media has raised this point.

I can read some Portuguese, where would it be discussed you think?

Maybe some Barrichello supporter sites in Portuguese or the like. I am sure the Brazilian view is very different from the main stream British dominated press