The 2009 Spanish Grand Prix Thread

[RE30B#16]

Kimi publicly stated that he did not want to do any more laps.
Unless there was a problem with the car that they did not want to reveal, then why the hell would a RACING driver, who loves the sport enough to fight into F1, then not want to do any more laps?????
My personal belief is that Kimi, unless the car feels just right, and he is "on it", just can't be bothered any more, not since early last year.
Had he managed a bag full of points by now, it would be different, but he knows the title is gone, again. That is why, despite his 2010 contract, I will be mildly surprised if he finishes this season.

I believe Kimi is finished in Formula 1. If there was no problem with the car, he has simply checked out on the season which may still not end up with Jenson Button winning the title. In another post, I mentioned the 1979 season results. There was the 1982 season results as well. The F1 season is long. Anything can happen. For him to pack it up this early to the point of not wanting to drive anymore, he should quit.

No doubt next year, Ferrari is going to throw the bank at Vettel, Alonso, and Kubica. They will perhaps end up with Mark Webber backing up Massa who will be the undisputed team leader should Raikkonen go, and the Scuderia cannot secure the service of Vettel, Alonso, or Kubica. Lewis Hamilton may even be offered Kimi's seat before the end of the season.

[Julian Mayo]

In my opinion, it was very clear that Barrichello was disadvantaged by the 3 stop strategy. Why would the Brawn team call the 2 stop strategy, Plan A if it was inferior ?
Plus if it was the optimum strategy then why didn't any other team opt for that strategy, perhaps they are all stupid huh ?

I like Rubens, but he needs to stop making excuses. Ayrton Senna, Michael Schumacher, Nelson Piquet (Sr), or Niki Lauda would have known which strategy was best. They would have told their team what strategy to use. If Rubens realized Button was gaining by switching strategy during the race, he should have instructed his team to put him on the same strategy. Drivers should control races, not team managers sitting on the pit wall!

The only race communication, imho, should be when there is a real emergency, and it should be from race control.
It should be the drivers call for tyres, fuel etc.

[Jim Watt]

Julian, Jay Vee & RE30B#16: without going into the matter of whether or not poor Rubens is being sand-bagged by Ross Braun, I think you can still make a case for Felipe or Mark Webber or Jensen B. or Fernando A. for driver of the day. Felipe for a great start and a thoroughly good job in the race (not his fault his team can't count! Could you believe the from Domenicelli? He claimed they were looking into why the refueling rig somehow didn't adequately refuel the car. Like this was something they had never looked at before. Like somehow the valve or the trigger or the hose itself gets kinky and fails to deliver fuel!!! This in a sport where the fueling business is measured in tenths of a second!!! This is like your bank telling you there's been 'a computer error' when they mess up your account. There's no computer error! The error is made by the jackass at the keyboard.) The case for Webber as driver of the day has already been eloquently made by, I think, Julian. Jensen has to be considered for no other reason than for the fact that he WON the bloody race. Hard to claim that the entire credit goes to Ross Braun or the car itself. But the reason I voted for Fernando is that AGAIN, driving a barge with ABSOLUTELY NOTHING going for it but its powerplant, he managed not only to get in the points but to be in them most of the day! I think, really, if Fernando were partnered with either Sebastian or Mark at Red Bull, all the clever strategy in the world wouldn't be enough to keep him off the top step. From the start of the year to the present I think under this scenario there would have been three red bull wins and only two for Braun. As to Kimi R. I am broken hearted. I was a true believer. I even picked him for the win and the pole at Barcelona. no more
cheers and on to the principality.

[Julian Mayo]

Julian, Jay Vee & RE30B#16: without going into the matter of whether or not poor Rubens is being sand-bagged by Ross Braun, I think you can still make a case for Felipe or Mark Webber or Jensen B. or Fernando A. for driver of the day. Felipe for a great start and a thoroughly good job in the race (not his fault his team can't count! Could you believe the from Domenicelli? He claimed they were looking into why the refueling rig somehow didn't adequately refuel the car. Like this was something they had never looked at before. Like somehow the valve or the trigger or the hose itself gets kinky and fails to deliver fuel!!! This in a sport where the fueling business is measured in tenths of a second!!! This is like your bank telling you there's been 'a computer error' when they mess up your account. There's no computer error! The error is made by the jackass at the keyboard.) The case for Webber as driver of the day has already been eloquently made by, I think, Julian. Jensen has to be considered for no other reason than for the fact that he WON the bloody race. Hard to claim that the entire credit goes to Ross Braun or the car itself. But the reason I voted for Fernando is that AGAIN, driving a barge with ABSOLUTELY NOTHING going for it but its powerplant, he managed not only to get in the points but to be in them most of the day! I think, really, if Fernando were partnered with either Sebastian or Mark at Red Bull, all the clever strategy in the world wouldn't be enough to keep him off the top step. From the start of the year to the present I think under this scenario there would have been three red bull wins and only two for Braun. As to Kimi R. I am broken hearted. I was a true believer. I even picked him for the win and the pole at Barcelona. no more
cheers and on to the principality.

As usual, a good post Jim.
I also concur with your thoughts in "another site", and have added my two bobs worth............

[Ed]

I think it is worth quoting again what the Ferrari team and Kimi Raikkonen said after qualifying.

Kimi Raikkonen: “We made a stupid mistake. It’s a real shame ... there’s no point in saying whose fault it was, because we can’t do anything about it now. I certainly wasn’t keen on doing another run as I was thinking of saving a set of new soft tyres for Q3 and the team reckoned we could make it. "

Chris Dyer: “... we made a serious mistake in our evaluation of Q1, believing that Kimi’s time would have been good enough to get him through to the next stage. It was a serious error which is really regrettable”

While Kimi and the team decided not to go back out (which both admit was a mistake), it was so that they save a set of tyres.
I very much doubt that it was because Kimi just didn't feel like driving.

[Julian Mayo]

I think it is worth quoting again what the Ferrari team and Kimi Raikkonen said after qualifying.

Kimi Raikkonen: “We made a stupid mistake. It’s a real shame ... there’s no point in saying whose fault it was, because we can’t do anything about it now. I certainly wasn’t keen on doing another run as I was thinking of saving a set of new soft tyres for Q3 and the team reckoned we could make it. "

Chris Dyer: “... we made a serious mistake in our evaluation of Q1, believing that Kimi’s time would have been good enough to get him through to the next stage. It was a serious error which is really regrettable”

While Kimi and the team decided not to go back out (which both admit was a mistake), it was so that they save a set of tyres.
I very much doubt that it was because Kimi just didn't feel like driving.

AHHHhhh............ it is amazing what the addition of those 21 words make to a quote from Kimi..........................

[GhoGho]

As usual, a good post Jim.
I also concur with your thoughts in "another site", and have added my two bobs worth............

ANOTHER SITE???

Are we not good enough anymore??

Well ok, as long as you keep visiting here I suppose

[F1greyhound]

The whole thing about KIMI and FERRARI is grossly overrated.

After all, neither of the 2 is used to fight for Q2...

Re.MARK or FERNANDO being driver of the day, of course you could make a case for both. I was just being ironic about Julian and Jayvee doing their "surprising" picks..

Re.FERNANDO in the REDBULL, I dont believe he would have done much better than SEBASTIAN but thats opinions.

As for the team order, I find it a stupid and boring discussion because on one hand from a managing point of view it would make sense, and we cant do anything about it anyway. Plus, in this particular case, like MICHAEL was, JENSON is faster and more efficient than RUBENS so if you like it or not there is a No.1 and a No.2, and same applies for most teams.

Where is the conspiracy theory about FERRARI preferring FELIPE, MCLAREN preferring LEWIS, WILLIAMS NICO, RENAULT FERNANDO??

All this aside BRAWN have not slowed down RUBENS, they wouldnt have risked to lose their 1-2. It is true the driver has the final word on strategy...

If you want to make money - be on SEBASTIAN for Monaco...

[Julian Mayo]

As usual, a good post Jim.
I also concur with your thoughts in "another site", and have added my two bobs worth............

ANOTHER SITE???

Are we not good enough anymore??

Well ok, as long as you keep visiting here I suppose

.......there wasn't much company here, and I was anxiously perusing all the other sites for news that Max had resigned, and eloped to Sierra Leone with Bernie, but as usual "NewonF1" has all the latest news.

[mlittle]

As usual, a good post Jim.
I also concur with your thoughts in "another site", and have added my two bobs worth............

ANOTHER SITE???

Are we not good enough anymore??

Well ok, as long as you keep visiting here I suppose

What other site? SpeedTv.com, motorsportforums.com, etc., etc., ......

[mlittle]

As usual, a good post Jim.
I also concur with your thoughts in "another site", and have added my two bobs worth............

ANOTHER SITE???

Are we not good enough anymore??

Well ok, as long as you keep visiting here I suppose

.......there wasn't much company here, and I was anxiously perusing all the other sites for news that Max had resigned, and eloped to Sierra Leone with Bernie, but as usual "NewonF1" has all the latest news.

Sado-Max and the Dwarf eloping to Sierra Leone.............

*wash, scrub, rinse, repeat........*

As to the race.....I'm still wondering why Brawn switched pit strategies on Barrichello as they did; FWIW, I don't think the team was deliberately trying to put one over on Rubens but rather they were trying to ensure that at least one of the Brawn cars was at the front(kinda' reminds me of what Roger Penske often does during an Indycar race when he puts Briscoe on one strategy and Castroneves on another; unless things go south during the race, one of them's always at the front.....). As Jenson Button was quoted after the race,

We are all here to win, and today it just went my way and it didn't for him. It could swing around for the next race, that's the way things go in F1.

Even though, by all appearances it looks like Brawn screwed Barrichello out of a win, I go back to what I said above........"I don't think the team was deliberately trying to put one over on Rubens but rather they were trying to ensure that at least one of the Brawn cars was at the front". If it means switching strategies on the fly, so be it; that's one of the beauties of the sport, the ability of the teams to change things up on the fly.

Anyways........onward to Monaco!

[Julian Mayo]

As usual, a good post Jim.
I also concur with your thoughts in "another site", and have added my two bobs worth............

ANOTHER SITE???

Are we not good enough anymore??

Well ok, as long as you keep visiting here I suppose

What other site? SpeedTv.com, motorsportforums.com, etc., etc., ......

A site which asked people's opinions of the proposed F1 regs for 2010 emanating from the totalitarian bunker posing as FIA headquarters, and presided over by Dictator Max and his twisted sidekick (who can now often be heard muttering,"another fine mess you've got us in to, Max").
I took great pleasure in posting my two bobs worth...

[JayVee]

F1greyhound, so you try and brush aside the evidince I provided

What you said orginally is this

Team orders? Please dont restart this stupid and boring discussion all over again. JENSON, like MICHAEL, is simply faster than RUBENS. Period, point, full stop. In fact both were on 3 stops which could have been a good strategy given the ridiculous performance in this GP of the prime tyres. They say they switched JENSON to get him clear of NICO - you can watch the replay of the race and you will see this makes sense. RUBENS by the way still had a chance of winning but on his 3rd stint on the option tyre he was not able to go the expected pace, he lost about 8-10secs there.

Particularly the last statement about Rubens not going on the expected pace, etc...

From the data from the race it clearly shows that Barrichello's stops where not balanced. Why was his second stint only 12 laps yet his third stint 19 laps, both were on the 'option tyre'.
Care to explain it ? Can anyone explain why Barrichello stopped 6 laps early in his second stint ?

F1greyhound, while I acknowledge that Button has outperformed Barrichello and given his points advantage he will be given preference but when a team does something like this, don't say it wasn't intentional. And the team should come clean too. But with Ross Brawn who is sadly a master at deception, that is very unlikely. We are not fools.

Conspiracies Look, if I see something wrong I will say it even if it favoured Fernando. If you have examples please share them

As for the driver deciding on the strategy and being able to switch it during the race. Really, so Jenson Button requested his switch because he knew he will end up behind Nico.

With all the computer analysis, drivers TRUST their team in deciding the strategy during the race. They would have discussed it before the race as well. If the team told Barrichello to stay on the same strategy, he would stay trusting that they have more information available.

The key here is TRUST. I said earlier, Barrichello is either a fool or just playing the game and given his recent comment or threat about quitting, maybe he found out he has been fooled (again)

[RE30B#16]

This is like your bank telling you there's been 'a computer error' when they mess up your account. There's no computer error! The error is made by the jackass at the keyboard.)

I love this statement, Jim!!

My DOTD was Fernando Alonso because he just gets on with it. He is the best driver in the world right now IMHO, and he is doing what he has always done... distinguish himself on the track. If everyone was driving a Brawn right now, no one else would have a chance at the title.

RE: Barrichelo. I am not a Barrichelo hater at all. I just believe he should just do better next time and skip the press statements as it seems like nothing you say will ever be presented in its proper context by the media.

[F1greyhound]

Jayvee,

not trying to brush aside your evidence. Just not sure you can call it evidence. For whatever reason we dont know or understand RUBENS had this 12 lap stint.

As I said, I dont believe that at this point of the championship BRAWN would risk to lose a safe 1-2 only to give 2 points to JENSON.

Master of deception? Come on....Not everything that had been printed in tabloids is the truth......In fact most of it is made up.....but I know you know that.......there was nothing handed to MICHAEL easily......Hard work.......like FERNANDO and now possibly JENSON.......