BAR Penalty - Your Thoughts

[K-D]

K-D you just choose bits of a reply and reply to

- BAR interepreted the weight rule differently. Conisder that whatever you want if you don't like to call it a technicality - The rule states 600 kg at all times, the car weighed 595 kg - How can you interpret that??

- If there is such a thing about your claimed 1994 clarification then it would have been mentioned. The fact that the court stated this: "Lucky Strike BAR Honda tried to argue that the car must be weighed with the remaining fuel in the tank after the race, which is not supported by any rules of the Code and Regulations" means that they don't have anything to support the car has to be drained as well - Yes they do have that, but they do not need that since the car was underweight.
- The court didn't say BAR broke any rule. - No, they are saying that the car was not in accordance with the rules.
- Please point me to where I said Ferrari testing extra is cheating.
If you care to check that thread, read my first post and then come back here and apologise - I have no intention of reading all your posts.

KD, maaaate,admit it! You have just been given the "drum"

Don't know what the "drum" mean.

[Julian Mayo]

I suspect that JV will inform you

[Kapel]

Shame on FIA!!!!!!

Apart form banning the BAR for 2 races and stripping JB of his points at Imola,they have now also become the reason for JB's break up with his girl friend.

[JayVee]

K-D you just choose bits of a reply and reply to

- BAR interepreted the weight rule differently. Conisder that whatever you want if you don't like to call it a technicality - The rule states 600 kg at all times, the car weighed 595 kg - How can you interpret that??

- If there is such a thing about your claimed 1994 clarification then it would have been mentioned. The fact that the court stated this: "Lucky Strike BAR Honda tried to argue that the car must be weighed with the remaining fuel in the tank after the race, which is not supported by any rules of the Code and Regulations" means that they don't have anything to support the car has to be drained as well - Yes they do have that, but they do not need that since the car was underweight.
- The court didn't say BAR broke any rule. - No, they are saying that the car was not in accordance with the rules.
- Please point me to where I said Ferrari testing extra is cheating.
If you care to check that thread, read my first post and then come back here and apologise - I have no intention of reading all your posts.

K-D, you can be stubborn if you wish

- The car was over 600 kg at all times
- They do have that What is that, where and what ? Please provide proof of this 1994 clarification.
- Don't read all my posts. I'll make it easier for you but in my own way.

You asked for it:

But a team running according to the rules you can go on and on about "cheating" based solely on your dislike for them. That makes Ferrari relevant in this thread, as an example of your doublestandards.

Here I said

Problem is that what you are calling cheating is allowed. Not much can be done about it as all the teams signed the concorde agreement.

But they are doing something about it and that is what GPWC is all about. Having fairness and excitement in the sport. Lets hope they succeed.

The other way of course is to beat Ferrari on track which I am hopeful would happen this year

And here I said

sgd, to be honest, the news from f1central are biased, try to get a balance mate. They are just like tabloids, they pick a heading and when you read the article you wonder.

Ferrari are having major problems, we don't need someone to tell us that. They have to either take the F2004M to Bahrain and San Marino and possibly finish outside the points or take the F2005 and risk not finishing at all.

And with their current problems, I see them doubling their testing and they won't listen. That's a natural reaction. But when they eventually realise that they got it wrong this year, they'll raise the white flag and we'll all say thank God for Renault


K-D can you give us your view on this Ferrari testing and this so-called ban on testing agreement that Ferrari isn't adhering to ?
Gentleman this, gentleman that, don't they sign anything in F1

K-D don't get clouded by the fact that I dislike Ferrari

Embarassed enough, K-D please check before you start accusing me next time.

Now if you excuse me, I have kids to attend to

[K-D]

K-D you just choose bits of a reply and reply to

- BAR interepreted the weight rule differently. Conisder that whatever you want if you don't like to call it a technicality - The rule states 600 kg at all times, the car weighed 595 kg - How can you interpret that??

- If there is such a thing about your claimed 1994 clarification then it would have been mentioned. The fact that the court stated this: "Lucky Strike BAR Honda tried to argue that the car must be weighed with the remaining fuel in the tank after the race, which is not supported by any rules of the Code and Regulations" means that they don't have anything to support the car has to be drained as well - Yes they do have that, but they do not need that since the car was underweight.
- The court didn't say BAR broke any rule. - No, they are saying that the car was not in accordance with the rules.
- Please point me to where I said Ferrari testing extra is cheating.
If you care to check that thread, read my first post and then come back here and apologise - I have no intention of reading all your posts.

K-D, you can be stubborn if you wish

- The car was over 600 kg at all times - No it was not. After being drained of fuel it weighed 595 kg, this is breaking rule 4.1 in the Technical regulations, which mandate 600 kg. Rule 4.2 state that fuel can not be used as ballast, the only way to read this is that fuel is not part of the weight of a car. This is why BAR Honda was penalised.
- They do have that What is that, where and what ? Please provide proof of this 1994 clarification. - Why??

- Don't read all my posts. I'll make it easier for you but in my own way.

You asked for it:

But a team running according to the rules you can go on and on about "cheating" based solely on your dislike for them. That makes Ferrari relevant in this thread, as an example of your doublestandards.

Here I said

Problem is that what you are calling cheating is allowed. Not much can be done about it as all the teams signed the concorde agreement.

But they are doing something about it and that is what GPWC is all about. Having fairness and excitement in the sport. Lets hope they succeed.

The other way of course is to beat Ferrari on track which I am hopeful would happen this year

And here I said

sgd, to be honest, the news from f1central are biased, try to get a balance mate. They are just like tabloids, they pick a heading and when you read the article you wonder.

Ferrari are having major problems, we don't need someone to tell us that. They have to either take the F2004M to Bahrain and San Marino and possibly finish outside the points or take the F2005 and risk not finishing at all.

And with their current problems, I see them doubling their testing and they won't listen. That's a natural reaction. But when they eventually realise that they got it wrong this year, they'll raise the white flag and we'll all say thank God for Renault


K-D can you give us your view on this Ferrari testing and this so-called ban on testing agreement that Ferrari isn't adhering to ?
Gentleman this, gentleman that, don't they sign anything in F1

K-D don't get clouded by the fact that I dislike Ferrari

Embarassed enough, K-D please check before you start accusing me next time. - I am not embarassed, and I will still not read all your posts.

[Julian Mayo]

K-D, you can be stubborn if you wish

- The car was over 600 kg at all times - No it was not. After being drained of fuel it weighed 595 kg, this is breaking rule 4.1 in the Technical regulations, which mandate 600 kg. Rule 4.2 state that fuel can not be used as ballast, the only way to read this is that fuel is not part of the weight of a car. This is why BAR Honda was penalised.
- They do have that What is that, where and what ? Please provide proof of this 1994 clarification. - Why??

- Don't read all my posts. I'll make it easier for you but in my own way.

You asked for it:

But a team running according to the rules you can go on and on about "cheating" based solely on your dislike for them. That makes Ferrari relevant in this thread, as an example of your doublestandards.

Here I said

Problem is that what you are calling cheating is allowed. Not much can be done about it as all the teams signed the concorde agreement.

But they are doing something about it and that is what GPWC is all about. Having fairness and excitement in the sport. Lets hope they succeed.

The other way of course is to beat Ferrari on track which I am hopeful would happen this year

And here I said

sgd, to be honest, the news from f1central are biased, try to get a balance mate. They are just like tabloids, they pick a heading and when you read the article you wonder.

Ferrari are having major problems, we don't need someone to tell us that. They have to either take the F2004M to Bahrain and San Marino and possibly finish outside the points or take the F2005 and risk not finishing at all.

And with their current problems, I see them doubling their testing and they won't listen. That's a natural reaction. But when they eventually realise that they got it wrong this year, they'll raise the white flag and we'll all say thank God for Renault


K-D can you give us your view on this Ferrari testing and this so-called ban on testing agreement that Ferrari isn't adhering to ?
Gentleman this, gentleman that, don't they sign anything in F1

K-D don't get clouded by the fact that I dislike Ferrari

Embarassed enough, K-D please check before you start accusing me next time. - I am not embarassed, and I will still not read all your posts.

Maa-aate you have now been given the drum,royally, to boot

[Kapel]

Chill u guys now....U'll definitely agree to disagree....

-600 KGS with or without fuel
-Ferrari's excess testing
-Mclaren & Redbull breaking 30-day-agreement
-BAR banned for 2 races
-Button's breaks-up with gril friend
-Me getting my brain changed
-Julian posting"i'm crazy "
-K-D being stubborn
-JV going off to take care of the kids

Too much happening....my brain is getting weak again....
Thank God,Friday practise starts in half hour

[Julian Mayo]

Chill u guys now....U'll definitely agree to disagree....

-600 KGS with or without fuel
-Ferrari's excess testing
-Mclaren & Redbull breaking 30-day-agreement
-BAR banned for 2 races
-Button's breaks-up with gril friend
-Me getting my brain changed
-Julian posting"i'm crazy "
-K-D being stubborn
-JV going off to take care of the kids

Too much happening....my brain is getting weak again....
Thank God,Friday practise starts in half hour

And v are not allowed to talk about cr..k.t or JV will whack us about the ears

[K-D]

Chill u guys now....U'll definitely agree to disagree....

-600 KGS with or without fuel - Agree less is breaking rules.-Ferrari's excess testing - No, they test as they are entitled to.
-Mclaren & Redbull breaking 30-day-agreement - No they are not breaking 30 day testing agreement.-BAR banned for 2 races - Yes, rightly so.
-Button's breaks-up with gril friend - According to some media they have.-Me getting my brain changed - Not not possible.-Julian posting"i'm crazy " - Yes.
-K-D being stubborn - No not at all, just pointing out facts.
-JV going off to take care of the kids - Don't know.

Too much happening....my brain is getting weak again....
Thank God,Friday practise starts in half hour

[sgd]

K-D!
I'd like to suggest you read the editorial of Planet-f1, is really good!!
( http://www.planetf1.com/features/editor ... 9408.shtml )

an apart:

"The Benetton team won the World Championship and they were allowed to keep it, they weren’t banned from any races at all, despite having something on the car that was categorically banned. No points were taken away.

Compare this to a team that might have been running underweight in a grand prix using a system that Messrs Bauer and Whiting were probably told about. It seems wholly disproportionate. BAR-Honda may deserve a two-race ban for trying to bend the rules to their advantage, but if that is the benchmark, then there are some in the pitlane who feel that Benetton should be stripped of their World Championship from 1994."

Hope after you read that you'd see the anti-GPWC of FIA decisions about BAR...

Cheers!

[K-D]

I would prefer to keep the discussion of this thread to the subject of the thread, and not to involve previous matters.

As far as the 1994 alleged illegal Benneton the FIA were unable to prove any cheating, the same way that they were unable to prove any cheating with BAR this week.

If you look at how the 1994 season occured, it is obvious that the FIA did all they could to ensure that Benneton did not manage to win then WDC, and Michael Schumacher was punished harder than most for a number of infractions:

DQ at British Grand Prix.
DQ at Belgian Grand Prix.
Race ban at Portuguese Grand Prix.
Race ban at Italian Grand Prix.

Had the FIA been able to prove cheating, they owuld have thrown Benneton out, but they could not. You can compare this to the 1999 season where the FIA suspected Jordan of running illegal software, but were unable to prove this.

The FIA is very cautious with their penalties, and the fact that they went after BAR Honda speaks volumes for their conviction that BAR Honda were knowlingly breaking the rules.

If you wnat to argue 1994 with mem, you need to start a seperate thread on that matter. I will not answer more 1994 Benneton questions in this thread.

[sgd]

that was just an apert from the article i sugestted you and all the rest too...I don't want to discuss about the 94...

[K-D]

that was just an apert from the article i sugestted you and all the rest too...I don't want to discuss about the 94...

Your link and comments deal with 1994, why bring it up then??

I'll strike mine from the thread.

[sgd]

I wonder who is next ?

McLaren ? Williams ? Renault ?

FIA president Max Mosley issued a strong warning to all of the teams (except to ferrari) when he said: “We are now considering whether to select one car at random of the points scorers at every race, and stripping it to the last nut and bolt. That will give a seven to one chance that if you are cheating and finish in the points, you will get caught.”

...

[JayVee]

K-D,

You accused me of going on and on about Ferrari cheating in testing based solely on my dislike for them.

I pointed out to you that my stated opinion on that matter wasn't the case and I quoted my replies on that topic. I also asked you to point out where I said such remarks but you chose to ignore that.

I enjoy discussing the other point of view with you but to bluntly accuse me of saying something I didn't and ignoring that despite telling you that wasn't and isn't my view on that subject is rude and unacceptable and doesn't make it enjoyable any more