Thoughts on the San Marino Grand Prix

[RE30B#16]

[quote="F1greyhound"]Kimi reminds me of Nigel Mansell, no mercy for the car....makes one wonder if Juan Pablo, being of the same kind, would have brought home more points than Pedro and Alex??

Kimi reminds me of his predessesor Mika. Imola is a track that rewards the driver who know when to be conservative and when to attack. The really heavy foot drivers don't always do well there, yet it is a track wherein if you are a bit conservative early, you can attack later if you can keep pace with the leader.

This race was fantastic. Alonso is a bonafide star now that he kept his wit for 12 some odd lap to hold off a faster Michael Schumacher. MS served notice however that he is not out of tricks up his sleave. Schumacher was simply brilliant putting in fast lap after fast lap to catch Button and Alonso. Great Stuff!!

Too bad for Jenson Button who probably had no tires or brakes left to really put up a fight against MS. Having said that, Schumacher suggested that he may have had more difficulty getting past JB if Mark Webber had not helped him out with yet another rookie-esque move. I think Williams should focus on Heidfeld and let Webber learn something from the vet.

BAR came through big time.

Jacques Villeneuve redeemed himself temporarily after stepping in it again. Massa should clearly be the team's focus.

Red Bull needs to bring back Christian Klien.

Toyota needs to think about race/pit strategy to give themselves a real chance at consistently getting on the podium. Having said that, Ralf Schumacher is woefully slow compared to ... everyone!

Renault needs to keep pushing for development. Fisichella's retirements are bad news especially now that we know Schumacher can win in this new car.

What is going on at McLaren? Alexander Wurz looked brilliant all weekend in San Marino. Three weeks ago, Pedro delaRosa looked like certain second place if you erase a few of his mistakes. Kimi looks good in qualifying and early on during races. Montoya, who I heard has not really gelled with the team yet, should feel like he needs to prove something. Ron Dennis has 4 good drivers.

Does anyone follow the Formula Mazda series here in the States? I checked out a race on Speed Channel just recently. Great stuff! Open wheel racing with guys drifting all over the place kinda like Formula 1 in the mid-Seventies.

Chris
I miss Damon Hill and Eddie Irvine

[F1greyhound]

Hi RE30B#16,

some good comments, obviously you observe the races very well.

I would comment on 2 points, first Im not sure if Tonio Liuzzi was inferior to Christian Klien as he seemed to take the maximum out of the car having an edge over DC as well.
Second I havent seen Ralf in the race but he definitely wasnt slow in Bahrain so probably too early to write him off.

As to Graham Ross comment, I have also been thinking of the Senna-Mansell race in Monaco, maybe the fight at the top this year will be between Fernando and Michael in most of the races.

This season is going to be great...

Greetings

[sgd]

some good comments, obviously you observe the races very well.
...
I would comment on 2 points, first Im not sure if Tonio Liuzzi was inferior to Christian Klien as he seemed to take the maximum out of the car having an edge over DC as well.
Second I havent seen Ralf in the race but he definitely wasnt slow in Bahrain so probably too early to write him off.

I'm pretty agree with you F1greyhound... I'm with you about Luizzi and Ralf. for the rest as I've said before quite agree with the most of people here. amazing the unreliability of ferrari... almost the worst...and amazing the reliability of Toyota... !
Cheers!

[JayVee]

maybe the fight at the top this year will be between Fernando and Michael in most of the races.

This season is going to be great...

I think the fight at the top will be between Alonso and some other driver depending on the race. Kimi, Michael, Jenson and Jarno will all be strong at certain races depending on the track and the weather

Isn't it surprising that so far this season there is such a huge difference between teammates !!

[Julian Mayo]

Apparantly the best fight of the season was between DC and Massa in the carpark, after the race

[K-D]

...
Isn't it surprising that so far this season there is such a huge difference between teammates !!

No not really, when the extra special effort is needed talent shines brighter and Fernando is clearly a more talented driver than Giancarlo, Kimi is clearly a more talented driver than Jaun Pablo, Pedro and Alexander, Michael is clearly a more talented driver than Rubens.

[F1greyhound]

Hi K-D,

would you say that this season takes an extra effort, more than previous seasons?

I agree with the tendencies you see between teammates but maybe you overstress a bit. Juan Pablo is pretty hard to be judged against Kimi after 2 races against 4......

Greetings

[sgd]

Kimi is clearly a more talented driver than Jaun Pablo,

I agree with the other comparison, but this one is !!!
and you even say "clearly" !!
got biased??

[K-D]

Kimi is clearly a more talented driver than Jaun Pablo,

I agree with the other comparison, but this one is !!!
and you even say "clearly" !!
got biased??

Just explain to me, how you see Juan Pablo as a more talented driver. And remember that points this season is NOT a measure you can use.

[Julian Mayo]

Kimi is clearly a more talented driver than Jaun Pablo,

I agree with the other comparison, but this one is !!!
and you even say "clearly" !!
got biased??

Just explain to me, how you see Juan Pablo as a more talented driver. And remember that points this season is NOT a measure you can use.

similarly KD I would like to see you make the same case for Kimi over JPM, using your own rules of judgement

[sgd]

Kimi is clearly a more talented driver than Jaun Pablo,

I agree with the other comparison, but this one is !!!
and you even say "clearly" !!
got biased??

Just explain to me, how you see Juan Pablo as a more talented driver. And remember that points this season is NOT a measure you can use.

I didn't mean points. and anyway, why NOT? Kimi has less in 4 races vs JPM in only 2, you can say that it is Kimi's bad luck, but what about his mistake in Qualif in Australia?? what about he stalled his car later??? anyway... you ask me to explain you "how I see Juan Pablo as a more talented driver" and my answer is that I don't. I don't know who is more talented. Both of them are very talented I rate them both in the same level as Alonso and MS. Maybe after a couple of years it will be possible to compare Kimi and JPM, as they are both in the same car, but now it's just TOO early!!!
and you say

Kimi is clearly a more talented driver than Jaun Pablo,

the most amazing is your "cleraly"...
btw, i NEVER said that I think that JPM is more talented than Kimi!!!
Remember the 1st year of JPM in williams? and the 2nd? (compared to Ralf) ... Kimi has been 3+ years in Maclren and Montoya just 2 races...

[K-D]

Well as we all know (and possibly agree on) there are facts and there are perceptions. We can all perceive a certain driver to be the best ever, or nothing but a hyped up journeyman, whom we will never expect to see fulfil his inherent potential.

One of the ?problems? we all have is that we just do not get the abnormal and utter amazing level of talent that ALL F1 drivers has. The ability to race these cars, in the manner that they do can not be compared to anything, which any of us will ever meet in real life, yet for all their immense talent, a few drivers stand out even above the others.

The driving style of some drivers, makes today?s cars difficult to excel in, since they in a sense are too rough, for the delicate machinery of today. A F1 car is not longer a machine that you can throw around at will, and manhandle to good results. The electronics will mess you up, and you will have to adjust your driving style according to the electronics, rather than being able to race entirely too all your strengths.

I wrote about Montoya in the beginning when I came on this board, and basically I see him as a throwback. He can be as fast as any other driver in the world on his day, and over a given lap, but he lags the finesse needed to conserve the tires over a full race distance, and he lags the pinpoint precision needed to make up time and distance, without sacrificing the car. If Montoya had been racing during the turbo era, I think that he would have been a multiple WDC; however he did not, and does not have what it takes to excel under the current rules. He is too hard on his tires, he slides the car to much, and he is apt for the occasional lapse during racing. In addition to which, he seem unable to get a real feel for setting a car up. When he gets it right, he can be awesome, when he does not he overdrives the car, and his result become lesser than they should be for that.

When I state Kimi to be clearly better than Juan Pablo it is based on their entire career in F1, it is not always points a and results that proves your case, I do think that Kimi is too rough on his machinery, and that a number of his retirements can be attributed to this, however Kimi have basically dominated David Coulthard at their time together at McLaren, and Juan Pablo had his hands full with Ralf Schumacher throughout his tenure at Williams.

All of this you can refute with a ?yada yada yada?. It is nothing bur perception, however that is what I go by. And I venture what we all go by when proclaiming our likes and dislikes.

[sgd]

Ok I undestand. seems a very important factor for you is how the driver manage his tyres... I just want to say the all you said can be said for the pair Alonso-Fisichella (Alonso->Montoya, Fisichella->Kimi) and...
Anyway i see it wothless to begin a disscution on this, so let's wait till autumm and then come back to this discussion, ok?
I won't forget your "clearly", so be sure i'll be posting about it as soon as Montoya show that it is not clear at all!!!
Cheers!

[K-D]

Ok I undestand. seems a very important factor for you is how the driver manage his tyres... I just want to say the all you said can be said for the pair Alonso-Fisichella (Alonso->Montoya, Fisichella->Kimi) and...
Anyway i see it wothless to begin a disscution on this, so let's wait till autumm and then come back to this discussion, ok?
I won't forget your "clearly", so be sure i'll be posting about it as soon as Montoya show that it is not clear at all!!!
Cheers!

No how a driver manages his tires are part of what wil make him a successful F1 driver. I am giving examples o the little intangibles that make for a frontrunning F1 driver.

Sliding the car a little ore than needed will cost you over a full racedistance.

Not setting the car up pinpoint will cost you over a full racedistance.

Taking different lines thought the corners will cost you over a racedistance.

Riding the curbs top hard will cost you over a racedistance.

Not riding the curbs at all will cost you over a race distance.

Changing breakingpoints will cost you over a race distance.

Changing fears at different revs will cost you over a racedistance.

I think that Montoya is fractionally inferior to Kimi is most of the above over a full season, therefore I see Kimi as a better F1 driver than Juan Pablo.

[sgd]

was clearly, now fractionally... i told you, let wai till autumm...
and... hummm.....

"Taking different lines thought the corners will cost you over a racedistance.

Changing breakingpoints will cost you over a race distance.

Changing fears at different revs will cost you over a racedistance."

hummm.... this reminds me a GREAT win of Alonso in Imola, not too much time ago... Cost? (I know it's another thing to Manage those changes...)

let's stop discussing it... it's worthless! I don't want talk about it anymore before, at least the 7th race of Montoya in Mclaren...