(Did) Alonso have an illegal car ??

sgd · Post by **sgd** » Mon May 23, 2005 11:40 pm

My question... (i read about it omewhere else)

Go here http://www.f1racing.net/en/photolarge.php?photoID=45037

and see if this from the FIA regs: http://www.formula1.com/insight/rulesan ... 3/511.html

76) Wear of tyres:
The Championship will be contested on grooved tyres. The FIA reserve the right to introduce at any time a method of measuring remaining groove depth if performance appears to be enhanced by high wear or by the use of tyres which are worn so that the grooves are no longer visible.

and taking into account that Alonso clearly could have and performance enhancement in Q due to "extra" soft tyres (extre soft for his car) ... so woudn't other teams appeal to that???
In other site i read other teams MUST appeal to that....

It looks logical to me but I'll rather ask an expert...

Ed · Post by Ed » Mon May 23, 2005 11:53 pm

No sgd, the key in this regulation is this

if performance appears to be enhanced by high wear or by the use of tyres which are worn so that the grooves are no longer visible

Clearly Alonso was struggling with no grooves so there was no performance enhancement. End of story
Had he been doing competitive lap times on those tyres then yes.

The competitiveness of the tyre in Qualifying was on grooves tyres so that is legal. When the grooves were no longer visible the performance dropped considerably and so there is no issue there.

We've seen several times this season tyres (by both Michelin and Bridgestone) at the end of the race with almost no grooves but in all cases there was a performance drop and hence no action.

Note that I've modified the title of this topic to indicate more a question rather than fact

K-D · Post by **K-D** » Tue May 24, 2005 12:00 am

I think that the FIA should re-word the rule, or issue a clarification, whenreby a threaded tire should indeed still have thread when the race is over.

Not being a technophobe I am not sure how to word this, but a threaded tire is a threaded tire.

I would obviously prefer to see the cars back on slicks, then we would not have this to worry about.

sgd · Post by **sgd** » Tue May 24, 2005 12:54 am

Ed wrote:No sgd, the key in this regulation is this
if performance appears to be enhanced by high wear or by the use of tyres which are worn so that the grooves are no longer visible
Clearly Alonso was struggling with no grooves so there was no performance enhancement. End of story
Had he been doing competitive lap times on those tyres then yes.

The competitiveness of the tyre in Qualifying was on grooves tyres so that is legal. When the grooves were no longer visible the performance dropped considerably and so there is no issue there.

We've seen several times this season tyres (by both Michelin and Bridgestone) at the end of the race with almost no grooves but in all cases there was a performance drop and hence no action.

Note that I've modified the title of this topic to indicate more a question rather than fact

Thx! but you still didn't convinced me...
there is said:

performance appears to be enhanced by high wear or by the use of tyres which are worn

so the enhance they got in Q which has due to high wear which lead to no-grooves could means iligality...

(about the title, it OK! thx)

sgd · Post by **sgd** » Tue May 24, 2005 12:57 am

K-D wrote:I think that the FIA should re-word the rule, or issue a clarification, whenreby a threaded tire should indeed still have thread when the race is over.

Not being a technophobe I am not sure how to word this, but a threaded tire is a threaded tire.

I would obviously prefer to see the cars back on slicks, then we would not have this to worry about.

I agree with K-D here!!

Ed · Post by Ed » Tue May 24, 2005 8:22 am

sgd wrote: Thx! but you still didn't convinced me...
there is said:

performance appears to be enhanced by high wear or by the use of tyres which are worn

so the enhance they got in Q which has due to high wear which lead to no-grooves could means iligality...

(about the title, it OK! thx)

sgd, the way I read it (and it is typical how FIA regulations are open for interpretation) is like this:

- if performance is enhanced by high wear, we'll investigate

or

- if performance is enhanced by the use of tyres which are worn so that the grooves are no longer visible, we'll investigate

Your theory about the enhancement they got in Qualifying is just that a theory. Renault actually used a harder compound than McLaren.

In qualifying they had a good and legal tyre

Towards the end of the race they had a worn tyre with 2 or 3 of the grooves no longer visible but the performance was impacted severely and so within the current regulations there is no need to investigate.

Now because this is Monaco and overtaking is very hard or almost impossible, Renault certainly gained an advantage by qualifying well and then holding the other cars up towards the end of the race. You could argue the intent of this based on them knowing their tryes won't last but I'd say it is a poor argument as they would be risking a lot knowing that their cars may not survive which Fisichella's didn't and Alonso somehow managed to hold the train of cars behind him.
To me, it is just part of the strategy, just like when you play with the fuel loads to get closer to the front of the grid but then pit early!.

At any other race this would not have been an issue and the affected car would drop a few places pretty quickly. (Barrichello & Webber in Bahrain are two examples)

sgd · Post by **sgd** » Tue May 24, 2005 9:24 am

Ed wrote:
sgd wrote: Thx! but you still didn't convinced me...
there is said:

performance appears to be enhanced by high wear or by the use of tyres which are worn

so the enhance they got in Q which has due to high wear which lead to no-grooves could means iligality...

(about the title, it OK! thx)
sgd, the way I read it (and it is typical how FIA regulations are open for interpretation) is like this:

- if performance is enhanced by high wear, we'll investigate

or

- if performance is enhanced by the use of tyres which are worn so that the grooves are no longer visible, we'll investigate

Your theory about the enhancement they got in Qualifying is just that a theory. Renault actually used a harder compound than McLaren.

In qualifying they had a good and legal tyre

Towards the end of the race they had a worn tyre with 2 or 3 of the grooves no longer visible but the performance was impacted severely and so within the current regulations there is no need to investigate.

Now because this is Monaco and overtaking is very hard or almost impossible, Renault certainly gained an advantage by qualifying well and then holding the other cars up towards the end of the race. You could argue the intent of this based on them knowing their tryes won't last but I'd say it is a poor argument as they would be risking a lot knowing that their cars may not survive which Fisichella's didn't and Alonso somehow managed to hold the train of cars behind him.
To me, it is just part of the strategy, just like when you play with the fuel loads to get closer to the front of the grid but then pit early!.

At any other race this would not have been an issue and the affected car would drop a few places pretty quickly. (Barrichello & Webber in Bahrain are two examples)

Thanks Ed!
I'm satisfied!
looks like those FIA rules are like the bible...anyone cans interpret them as he likes...

I think they shoud be much more clear.
in any case I wouldn't be surprised if Bridgeston appeal to that...

delia · Post by **delia** » Fri May 16, 2008 1:22 pm

Hi there guys.,I'm just a new member on this site.,And I'm just wandering if Alonso really have a illegal car? And one more thing, I just wanna ask if what are the basis in how to identify the illegal from legal car. Would you help me for that?

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delia