I don't understand... if they qualify light, then they'll have to do early pitstop, thus will have at least 2 pitstops... and how is it that you said that they will qualify light, which means an initially light car and then you said "ride the race out on the initialy heavy car"???K-D wrote:I think that everyone will qualify light(ly), and only go one-stop. Except those who have build a car with a fueltank not able to hold enough to allow for that.
Trick will be to qualify as lightly as possible, and then ride the race out on the initialy heavy car.
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The "They" that I am interested in, is Ferrari and Michael Schumacher. I expect Michael Schumacher to qualify a very light car, running as light as possible, to ensure that he can complete the race on only one stop. I have been told that the Ferrari fuel tank is about 130 liters, and that should be able to hold fuel for 39 laps, by that "calculus" his first stint will be 33 laps, and that will be running "light" (if the 130 liters is correct then that mean about 72 kgs (33 laps times 2,7 liters time 0,8 (conversion from liter to kgs)).sgd wrote:I don't understand... if they qualify light, then they'll have to do early pitstop, thus will have at least 2 pitstops... and how is it that you said that they will qualify light, which means an initially light car and then you said "ride the race out on the initialy heavy car"???K-D wrote:I think that everyone will qualify light(ly), and only go one-stop. Except those who have build a car with a fueltank not able to hold enough to allow for that.
Trick will be to qualify as lightly as possible, and then ride the race out on the initialy heavy car.
Any team planning on 2 stops will have to decide on equal length stints, or different. If running two stops, with equal then a team sharing the same 130 liter size tank will go:
2 stopper
--
1st stint - 24 laps / 52 kg
2nd stint - 24 laps / 52 kg
3 rd sting - 24 laps / 52 kg
1 stopper
--
1st stint - 33 laps / 72 kg
2nd stint - 39 laps / 84 kg
Then we try something.
MS starting from 7th on the grid, he is 20 kg heavier than RS and JT on the front row. At the start everyone makes it safely through the first lap, and holds on to their qualifying position.
RS and JT are slow, and the "usual" pattern of the Toyotas being a cork in the bottle play out once more, and the field is only stretched a little, and MS is conserving his tires and falling a little behind GF in 6th.
The first pit sequence start on lap 22, and every one in the top 10 except for MS pits by lap 25.
On lap 25 MS is running with only 8 kg fuel, and having been able to steadily increase his pace, he has an open track in front whne he earns the lead when RS pits on lap 25th, he promptly set the fastest lap of the race, and continue to do so the next 9 laps. The rest of the field have ergained the track, but are all running 15 kh heavier than MS, so are losing time every single lap.
MS pits on lap 34, having saved a lap running slowly in the beginning of the race. And eventhough his stop is longer, due to needing more fuel he moves from 7th befoer the pitstops to 4th on the road behind RS, JT and FA. Initially he falls backwards from them, however on lap 48 - 50 they all have to pit again, and he regains the lead.
He continue the rest of the race, and win the Monaco Grand Prix.
K-D
Putting Heidfeld ahead of Kimi is more hoping than anything (ive followed Heidfeld for a while and hope he suceeds so much in F1)sgd wrote:Looks reasonable, but why Mclaren so bad? where is Montoya???Kev Mac wrote:Pole - Jarno Trulli
1st Fernando Alonso
2nd Giancarlo Fisichella
3rd Jarno Trulli
4th Nick Heidfeld
5th Kimi Raikkonen
6th Ralf Schumacher
7th Michael Schumacher
8th Rubens Barrichello
Jarno has a great race last year at Monaco with Renault, and the Toyota has really impressed me, the balance of the car is alomost perfect, and will be a big plus for such a tricky circuit. But i do feel its launch control will be Toyotas disadvantage at the start, and both Renaults will pass it.
As for Montoya, its not the best circuit to drive when you've got a dicky shoulder! He'll sulk around the track with the Saubers and Red Bulls
FORZA MINARDI
K-D,
it's good to dream, but:
1.if MS qualify with fuel for 1 pit strategy then: he will have to use a harder type of tyres, thus he will qualify not 7th but 9th or 10th, remember Spain!! he went to Q1 almost last and after all he managed only 8th with fuel for 2 pit-stops strategy (so a lot less the needed for 1 pitstop strg.). So if he qualif as you want he will be not behind Toyota but behind redbull.... the rest is history...
2.You forgot about McLaren!!!!! where was KR (Barcelna winner)and JPM (2003 Monaco winner) ???? if you go rationally you cannot let them out just because!
3.again the tyres, as he has harder tyres the the rest when he'll have finally clear track he won't be able to push hard enoght to recover to 4th, he'll be too far behind and will go just fractionally faster (if faster)(Renault and McLaren with softer tyres...). His race would similar to Barca's Berichello, he had that situation there. he began last but 4 cars do not count (Minardi & Jordan) so began 12th...(BAR was also absent), and what he get? 9th... 3 places better =/. harder birdgestone tyres will kill MS if he does what you proposed...
4.If to your story we add a pace car of two(which is highly probable), MS's strategy brakes down...
So he'd finished 7th or max 6th if they do what you propose...
it's good to dream, but:
1.if MS qualify with fuel for 1 pit strategy then: he will have to use a harder type of tyres, thus he will qualify not 7th but 9th or 10th, remember Spain!! he went to Q1 almost last and after all he managed only 8th with fuel for 2 pit-stops strategy (so a lot less the needed for 1 pitstop strg.). So if he qualif as you want he will be not behind Toyota but behind redbull.... the rest is history...
2.You forgot about McLaren!!!!! where was KR (Barcelna winner)and JPM (2003 Monaco winner) ???? if you go rationally you cannot let them out just because!
3.again the tyres, as he has harder tyres the the rest when he'll have finally clear track he won't be able to push hard enoght to recover to 4th, he'll be too far behind and will go just fractionally faster (if faster)(Renault and McLaren with softer tyres...). His race would similar to Barca's Berichello, he had that situation there. he began last but 4 cars do not count (Minardi & Jordan) so began 12th...(BAR was also absent), and what he get? 9th... 3 places better =/. harder birdgestone tyres will kill MS if he does what you proposed...
4.If to your story we add a pace car of two(which is highly probable), MS's strategy brakes down...
So he'd finished 7th or max 6th if they do what you propose...
1.so it was hoping ... that make sense...Kev Mac wrote:Putting Heidfeld ahead of Kimi is more hoping than anything (ive followed Heidfeld for a while and hope he suceeds so much in F1)
As for Montoya, its not the best circuit to drive when you've got a dicky shoulder! He'll sulk around the track with the Saubers and Red Bulls
2.His shoulder seem to be ok now...
I guess the logic of J.T. getting the pole and then nicely letting F.A. and G.F. pass him eludes me; maybe you mean their launch control will simply lift them over his head? And then he'll settle down and eat their fumes for the rest of the day?Kev Mac wrote:A newbies selection (if anyone cares enough to take an interest!)
Pole - Jarno Trulli
1st Fernando Alonso
2nd Giancarlo Fisichella
3rd Jarno Trulli
4th Nick Heidfeld
5th Kimi Raikkonen
6th Ralf Schumacher
7th Michael Schumacher
8th Rubens Barrichello
Jarno has a great race last year at Monaco with Renault, and the Toyota has really impressed me, the balance of the car is alomost perfect, and will be a big plus for such a tricky circuit.
I agree that Trulli drove a fine race last year. So what? David Coulthard drove a fine one three years ago, but I don't expect to see Red Bull on the podium. What does worry me is that JP Montoya has won this race and Kimi hasn't. So, for me, the wild card is whether or not Ron Dennis's boys take each other out (remember Ralph and JPM at Indianapolis).
I think it's possible that both Kimi and JPM will be ahead of both Michael AND Fernando. And if Alonso is BEHIND Michael, he will just have to cool his jets; although it matters a great deal who's in FRONT of Michael; ain't nobody gonna pass him.
Rubens and Michael have been exchanging 'orrible days this year and it's Michael's turn to shine, so I'm going to go out on a limb and pick him to win. I expect the pole to go to Kimi, followed, probably, by JP Montoya and Giancarlo. I hope Fernando turns out to be as cool as Kimi, but I suspect that, after the disappointment of Barcelona, he'll be pushing too hard and defeat himself. Kimi, clearly, is only defeated by his car.
So yes I care and I'm as much a newbie as you. Here are my picks:
Pole: Kimi Raikonnen
1. Michael Schumacher
2. Kimi Raikonnen
3. Giancarlo Fisichella
4. Juan Pablo Montoya
5. Fernando Alonso
6. David Coulthard
7. Christian Klien
8. Jarno Trulli
So have at me, friends! who ever wins, it's gonna be more fun than it has been for a long time!!
Jim Watt
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Kev Mac wrote:A newbies selection (if anyone cares enough to take an interest!)
Pole - Jarno Trulli
1st Fernando Alonso
2nd Giancarlo Fisichella
3rd Jarno Trulli
4th Nick Heidfeld
5th Kimi Raikkonen
6th Ralf Schumacher
7th Michael Schumacher
8th Rubens Barrichello
Jarno has a great race last year at Monaco with Renault, and the Toyota has really impressed me, the balance of the car is alomost perfect, and will be a big plus for such a tricky circuit. But i do feel its launch control will be Toyotas disadvantage at the start, and both Renaults will pass it.
Welcome KEV. Mate you are now in one of the most caring environments in the world!!!!
We care about your picks, so we can pick the eyes out of them, we care about your opinions, as long as they match ours,we care about your sensitivities-it's easier to shoot you down in flames if you are sensitive, and take things personally- we just care all the time
And I care that you have put Nick in and left Mark out
The Mountain is a savage Mistress.
Oops,they pulled Christian, so I had to change my picks
Sorry guys, I wasn't paying attention to the fast-moving world of Grand Prix who can bring the most cash to the track and so my picks have to change. I can't see Luzzi (I don't even know how to spell his name!) pulling the old Bull behind D.C. so I'll put Trulli there in the good old Toyota (I know there's lots of grunt in it, but this is Monaco, you know, and finesse is more important than horsepower)
And I put Nick in slot 8 just to keep Frank Williams from killing himself (like he practically has killed his chances by consistently picking good old all round manly mates who know how to do pretty much everything but race!)
So how do you guys place prior posts in those neat little boxes, anyway?
Jim Watt again (just to keep you on your toes)
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BACK K-D, well doneK-D wrote:Winner : Michael Schumacher
Second : Fernando Alonso
Third : Kimi Raikkonen
Fourth : Giancarlo Fisichella
Fifth : Ralf Schumacher
Sixth : Jarno Trulli
Seventh : Juan Pablo Montoya
Eighth : David Coulthard
Pole : Michael Schumacher
No Barrichello
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Jim Watt wrote:A newbies selection (if anyone cares enough to take an interest!)
Pole - Jarno Trulli
1st Fernando Alonso
2nd Giancarlo Fisichella
3rd Jarno Trulli
4th Nick Heidfeld
5th Kimi Raikkonen
6th Ralf Schumacher
7th Michael Schumacher
8th Rubens Barrichello
Jarno has a great race last year at Monaco with Renault, and the Toyota has really impressed me, the balance of the car is alomost perfect, and will be a big plus for such a tricky circuit.
I guess the logic of J.T. getting the pole and then nicely letting F.A. and G.F. pass him eludes me; maybe you mean their launch control will simply lift them over his head? And then he'll settle down and eat their fumes for the rest of the day?
I agree that Trulli drove a fine race last year. So what? David Coulthard drove a fine one three years ago, but I don't expect to see Red Bull on the podium. What does worry me is that JP Montoya has won this race and Kimi hasn't. So, for me, the wild card is whether or not Ron Dennis's boys take each other out (remember Ralph and JPM at Indianapolis).
I think it's possible that both Kimi and JPM will be ahead of both Michael AND Fernando. And if Alonso is BEHIND Michael, he will just have to cool his jets; although it matters a great deal who's in FRONT of Michael; ain't nobody gonna pass him.
Rubens and Michael have been exchanging 'orrible days this year and it's Michael's turn to shine, so I'm going to go out on a limb and pick him to win. I expect the pole to go to Kimi, followed, probably, by JP Montoya and Giancarlo. I hope Fernando turns out to be as cool as Kimi, but I suspect that, after the disappointment of Barcelona, he'll be pushing too hard and defeat himself. Kimi, clearly, is only defeated by his car.
So yes I care and I'm as much a newbie as you. Here are my picks:
Pole: Kimi Raikonnen
1. Michael Schumacher
2. Kimi Raikonnen
3. Giancarlo Fisichella
4. Juan Pablo Montoya
5. Fernando Alonso
6. David Coulthard
7. Christian Klien
8. Jarno Trulli
So have at me, friends! who ever wins, it's gonna be more fun than it has been for a long time!!
Jim Watt
Here is at you "JUM"
I will bet 2 roubles and 1 peso that there is time for a nap between Webber finishing, and Klien getting to the line....if he does
The Mountain is a savage Mistress.
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Re: Oops,they pulled Christian, so I had to change my picks
Jim Watt wrote:
Sorry guys, I wasn't paying attention to the fast-moving world of Grand Prix who can bring the most cash to the track and so my picks have to change. I can't see Luzzi (I don't even know how to spell his name!) pulling the old Bull behind D.C. so I'll put Trulli there in the good old Toyota (I know there's lots of grunt in it, but this is Monaco, you know, and finesse is more important than horsepower)
And I put Nick in slot 8 just to keep Frank Williams from killing himself (like he practically has killed his chances by consistently picking good old all round manly mates who know how to do pretty much everything but race!)
So how do you guys place prior posts in those neat little boxes, anyway?
Jim Watt again (just to keep you on your toes)
Click on quote in the top right hand corner
(thanks JV)
If it doesn't work, borrow my computer axe
The Mountain is a savage Mistress.
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There seems to be picks galore for Monaco
Well let me tell you all, 1 car will dominate and that is Renault. (They would have finished 1-2 last year had it not been for Ralf ). This year they have a much better car and they will be untouchable.
McLaren will be next then a fight of strategy between Toyota, Ferrari, Williams and perhaps Red Bull
Those thinking Michael will win are dreaming. I doubt he'll qualify in the top 8. He may finish 6th or 7th but I don't pick him
My picks to move back into the top 10
Winner: Fernando Alonso
Second: Giancarlo Fisichella
Third: Juan Pablo Montoya
Fourth: Kimi Raikkonen
Fifth: Jarno Trulli
Sixth: Rubens Barrichello
Seventh: Mark Webber
Eighth: David Coulthard
Pole: Fernando Alonso
And show me your picks before you rubbish mine
Well let me tell you all, 1 car will dominate and that is Renault. (They would have finished 1-2 last year had it not been for Ralf ). This year they have a much better car and they will be untouchable.
McLaren will be next then a fight of strategy between Toyota, Ferrari, Williams and perhaps Red Bull
Those thinking Michael will win are dreaming. I doubt he'll qualify in the top 8. He may finish 6th or 7th but I don't pick him
My picks to move back into the top 10
Winner: Fernando Alonso
Second: Giancarlo Fisichella
Third: Juan Pablo Montoya
Fourth: Kimi Raikkonen
Fifth: Jarno Trulli
Sixth: Rubens Barrichello
Seventh: Mark Webber
Eighth: David Coulthard
Pole: Fernando Alonso
And show me your picks before you rubbish mine
I'm back and yes supporting Alonso "The Cute" in the Ferrari!
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Good to see you back K-DK-D wrote:Winner : Michael Schumacher
Second : Fernando Alonso
Third : Kimi Raikkonen
Fourth : Giancarlo Fisichella
Fifth : Ralf Schumacher
Sixth : Jarno Trulli
Seventh : Juan Pablo Montoya
Eighth : David Coulthard
Pole : Michael Schumacher
And good luck to your Michael Schumacher. I don't think you'll catch me in 8 'n' Pole though
I'm back and yes supporting Alonso "The Cute" in the Ferrari!
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Kev Mac,Kev Mac wrote:A newbies selection (if anyone cares enough to take an interest!)
Pole - Jarno Trulli
1st Fernando Alonso
2nd Giancarlo Fisichella
3rd Jarno Trulli
4th Nick Heidfeld
5th Kimi Raikkonen
6th Ralf Schumacher
7th Michael Schumacher
8th Rubens Barrichello
Jarno has a great race last year at Monaco with Renault, and the Toyota has really impressed me, the balance of the car is alomost perfect, and will be a big plus for such a tricky circuit. But i do feel its launch control will be Toyotas disadvantage at the start, and both Renaults will pass it.
The Toyota launch control is actually pretty good and I don't think the Renaults are that much better. But the Toyota will struggle.
After their last test, Panis said "On paper I would say that Monaco wouldn't be one of the best circuits for Toyota this year. Imola was our hardest circuit so far because of its kerbs and Monaco's bumps are also a challenge for the suspension. But Monaco is a grand prix which can often throw up a surprise result so you never know. If the cars can score points it will be great. Anything more would be a major bonus"
Just a bit of advice for a newbie!!
I'm back and yes supporting Alonso "The Cute" in the Ferrari!
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A question or two JV. Not Rubbishing, OK?JayVee wrote:There seems to be picks galore for Monaco
Well let me tell you all, 1 car will dominate and that is Renault. (They would have finished 1-2 last year had it not been for Ralf ). This year they have a much better car and they will be untouchable.
McLaren will be next then a fight of strategy between Toyota, Ferrari, Williams and perhaps Red Bull
Those thinking Michael will win are dreaming. I doubt he'll qualify in the top 8. He may finish 6th or 7th but I don't pick him
My picks to move back into the top 10
Winner: Fernando Alonso
Second: Giancarlo Fisichella
Third: Juan Pablo Montoya
Fourth: Kimi Raikkonen
Fifth: Jarno Trulli
Sixth: Rubens Barrichello
Seventh: Mark Webber
Eighth: David Coulthard
Pole: Fernando Alonso
And show me your picks before you rubbish mine
Why JPM ahead of Kimi?
Why barrichello ahead of Webber?
And, what do you see happening to Ralf to not include him?
The Mountain is a savage Mistress.