Thoughts on the Turkish Grand Prix

Post by **Tim** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 1:38 am

Kimi Raikkonen wins the inagural Turkish Grand Prix with a dominant display. He was over 20 seconds in the lead before easing off towards the end of the race. Team-mate Montoya was on track to make it a McLaren 1-2 but was hit by Montiero just after lapping him then went wide allowing Alonso to take second. Montoya did appear to have a right front tyre problem.
Alonso manages to finish second and minimise the damage caused by Raikkonen. Team-mate Fisichella took the lead at the start but couldn't keep it for one lap. He then let his team-mate pass him. He had a refuelling problem which lost him more time but ended up 4th just ahead of Button.
Button who started from 13th was very close to taking 4th from Fisichella. The BAR was strong here, possibly stronger than the Renault. Team-mate Sato also had a good race after starting from the pitlane finishing 9th just outside the points.
Jarno Trulli managed 6th dropping a place from where he qualified while his team-mate Ralf Schumacher had a poor start and only managed 12th at the end of the race.
The 2 Red Bulls of Coulthard and Klien did well to finish in the points in 7th and 8th!

Ferrari were off the pace, Barrichello finishing 10th and a lap behind while Michael starting from the back managed to catch Barrichello at one stage but a tangle with Webber effectively ended his race.
Sauber didn't fare much better with Villeneuve only managing 11th and Massa retiring with an engine problem.
Williams appeared to have improved their pace this weekend but in the race it seems their car was causing the right rear tyre to deflate! (Williams and Michelin are investigating). This occured 4 times and caused both Webber and Heidfeld to retire.

In the Minardi/Jordan battle, Doornbos finished ahead of the 2 Jordans. They were all 3 laps behind!

So what are your thoughts on the first ever Turkish Grand Prix ?

sgd · Post by **sgd** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 9:01 am

Kimi, Alonso, Button, Sato, DC and Klien -- Great!!!

Montoya-Monteiro incident -- no comments
MShumierda-Webber incident -- For me Shumierda is to blame, only his mother belives his "I didn't see Webber" that is ridiculous!!

unsporting, as his usual behaviour... and some call him the best driver ever...

Nice to see RedBull ahead of Ferrari again!!! that should be a nice battla in Monza!!

Driver of the Race -- Button.

mlittle · Post by **mlittle** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 9:09 am

It was a great race, considering that it was the first time F1's ever visited Turkey. Congrats to Kimi...it was his race the whole day. Normally, I don't agree with sgd on much of anything, but this time, he's right, that was unsporting of Michael to crash into Webber during the race as he did. It's a shame, because Michael's a far better driver than that to do something like that. It's also become apparent that Schumacher's become yet another rolling chicane.

Bundy · Post by **Bundy** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 12:54 pm

Just in case anyone wasn't sure I am a Mark Webber Fan!!!

HOW MUCH BLOODY BAD LUCK CAN 1 MAN HAVE!!!!!!!!!!

MS & Sato (qual incident) have a lot to answer for in my opinion. At least the Williams looked better than they had.

Julian Mayo · Post by **Julian Mayo** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 1:06 pm

No driver of the day.
Black flag award goes to Michael "No Mirrors" Schumaker.
Webber must have run over a black cat.

JayVee · Post by **JayVee** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 4:53 pm

Good race! Actually would have liked to see Alonso The Cute winning but it was obvious the McLaren was fast!
Thanks to typical Montoya for second anyway

Button seems to perform better when his future is up in the air. He drove a good race

Trulli is back ahead of Ralf. You didn't think Ralf would do well for a number of races did you

2 Red Bull's finished ahead of Ferrari

That must have cheered sgd up a bit given Montoya's form
I reckon Ferrari have it in the contract that Red Bull switch to Bridgestone next year

Williams go fast but blow up their tyres. That was a strange one.

It was good to see Mark make that move on Michael. I don't think Michael has any more friends now. How would a tangle with Massa at Monza look

Seriously though, Michael needs to find another job. If he can't handle being at the back he should leave!
You can sum up the situation at Ferrari with what Barrichello said

We had no grip and we clearly made the wrong choice in terms of the tyres we brought to Turkey

Obviously neither tyre worked

So back to the more important stuff, Alonso The Cute has the championship pretty much wrapped up, the constructors though is starting to look like going McLaren's way. They have Montoya but Renault have Fisichella

Byron Forbes · Post by **Byron Forbes** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 5:22 pm

mlittle wrote:It was a great race, considering that it was the first time F1's ever visited Turkey. Congrats to Kimi...it was his race the whole day. Normally, I don't agree with sgd on much of anything, but this time, he's right, that was unsporting of Michael to crash into Webber during the race as he did. It's a shame, because Michael's a far better driver than that to do something like that. It's also become apparent that Schumacher's become yet another rolling chicane.

Any time I wish to suffocate, via laughter, Damon, Jacques or Mark, I'll point then to this post. He has always been especially unsporting when it comes to him being overtaken. Apart from that, he is a great driver of course - I suppose he's not good at being overtaken due to lack of experience!

I was impressed by Webber on Sunday - HE SHOWED SOME BALLS! Short as it was for various reasons, I think it was Webbers best performance - he looked like he meant business. The incident with Schumacher has the reciprocating effect on the rest of the field that Schmacher had ie Mark - "don't turn down on me!", Michael - "don't go up the inside of me!".

Webber earnt some respect in this race - some good passes by him, especially taking Klein? to the outside.

sgd · Post by **sgd** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 6:20 pm

Byron Forbes wrote: I was impressed by Webber on Sunday - HE SHOWED SOME BALLS! Short as it was for various reasons, I think it was Webbers best performance - he looked like he meant business. The incident with Schumacher has the reciprocating effect on the rest of the field that Schmacher had ie Mark - "don't turn down on me!", Michael - "don't go up the inside of me!". Webber earnt some respect in this race - some good passes by him, especially taking Klein? to the outside.

GhoGho · Post by **GhoGho** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 2:55 am

Here are a few questions for all:
If team orders are not permitted in F1 (and most here continually lambaste ferrari for this) howcome nothing is being said about the radio message Fisi got to let Alonso through?
Is this not considered "team orders" because it didnt come from Ferrrari?
If Fisi was told to let Alonso through, why is there no penalty for Alonso/Renault?
Why aren't McLarren Protesting? It would after all greatly improve their chances in both championships

Mmmm........?

sgd · Post by **sgd** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 5:05 am

GhoGho wrote:Here are a few questions for all:
If team orders are not permitted in F1 (and most here continually lambaste ferrari for this) howcome nothing is being said about the radio message Fisi got to let Alonso through?
Is this not considered "team orders" because it didnt come from Ferrrari?
If Fisi was told to let Alonso through, why is there no penalty for Alonso/Renault?
Why aren't McLarren Protesting? It would after all greatly improve their chances in both championships

Mmmm........?

Com'on!!
Fisichella already talked about it.. he has no chances in the WDC and said he'd help Alonso ('because they're a team'), and he let Alonso past because Alonso was shorter (on fuel) so could go faster, so it was tactics. . .you ask about Ferrari ... remember Austria 2002??? no more comments.

I'm not sure but as I understood, Fisichella wasn't told to let Alonso pass, the radio said something like "Alonso, you are faster overatke Fisichella!" can anyone give us the exactly quote?? in any case it was up to Fisichella to let him pass or not, So it's not an order. In the ferrari, that was RB's job to go behind MS even when he still could win the WDC...And those were Orders!
If Fisichella is leading do not expect him to stop and wait for alonso to overtake him... I recon he will allow Alonso past only if it's clear Alonso is going faster and is fighting for the tittle while Fisichella has no chances of winning it...
I'm a McLaren fan and I can understand that were tactics... Absolutely no Austria-2002-ferrari-BullShit-like.

don't be surprised to see Montoya doing similar things this year in the last 5 races...
The important point:It'll be up to the driver to help or not.

JayVee · Post by **JayVee** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 7:40 pm

Gho Gho, good point, the issue of team orders isn't clear and will most likely continue to be because it can't be enforced. Team orders are supposidly banned but so many times we see teams ordering their drivers not to fight after the final stop. Isn't that a team order ? Shouldn't they keep racing until the end of the race ? Had it been 2 drivers from different teams they would!

It appears that the 'acceptable' thing is for drivers not to help their team-mates unless they have no chance of winning the title. That however doesn't appear to apply with Ferrari who have a nominated number 1.

Renault are a fair team, in Canada Fisichella was ahead of Alonso and we saw how Fisichella didn't give way (until his car failed). At that stage Fisichella still had some hope but in Turkey he had no chance of winning the title so he was happy to help Alonso.
Renault provide the radio feed to the broadcaster. BAR do too but we don't get to hear the radio from Ferrari (except at Indy!!) or McLaren (except at the end of the race).

McLaren protesting ? Yeah did anyone notice that in Hungary Montoya let Raikkonen through on the first lap

Yes he did

Kapel · Post by **Kapel** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 8:48 pm

A race which almost had everything...almost

1. A potential team order in Renault (can be termed as Teammate helping the other,not willingly though)
2. Almost start to finish, mistake free,brilliant race for the winner.
3. Brilliant overtaking (Button on numerous occasions & Webber on Klien)
4. Unnecessary,usual move by Schumacher & Usual "no mirror" comments to follow.
5. Grit-Show him that he's no more No.1(Webber crashing into Michael,almost deliberately for making the move)
6. Living on the edge(for Williams drivers on 5 tyre failures)
7. Badluck turning to good luck(Fisi's pit stop problem could have ruined his race)
8. Stupidity (Montoya cutting ahead after overtaking)
9. Opportunist ,Lucky & Awake (Alonso finishing 2nd)
10. Consistent (DC's point scoring)

Kapel · Post by **Kapel** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 9:24 pm

sgd wrote:remember Austria 2002???

U like this,dont u???Thats ur only memory of F1 i suppose

I'm not sure but as I understood, Fisichella wasn't told to let Alonso pass

,
These things are never aired!!!

the radio said something like "Alonso, you are faster overatke Fisichella!"

An indication that it has been conveyed to Fisi,strategy or no strategy

in any case it was up to Fisichella to let him pass or not, So it's not an order.

It always the driver's call to let him pass or no,finally!!!

In the ferrari, that was RB's job to go behind MS even when he still could win the WDC...And those were Orders!

Sure!!! this is like saying Pizza Hut is more of a dine-in place & Dominos is more of a takeaway place

If Fisichella is leading do not expect him to stop and wait for alonso to overtake him... I recon he will allow Alonso past only if it's clear Alonso is going faster and is fighting for the tittle while Fisichella has no chances of winning it...
I'm a McLaren fan and I can understand that were tactics... Absolutely no Austria-2002-ferrari-BullShit-like.

No way in 1998 Australian GP(i'll keep bringing this back to ur face when u mentione Austria 2002),1st race of the season,was it clear the Mika Hakkinen was gonna win the title & not DC.Team orders were given then too,do u think DC was really happy to let Mika go for consecutive 2 races!!!!Ofcourse, ur a Mclaren fan,i'm too sgd,but team orders are same for every1 N they prevail & will always be around in F1.

don't be surprised to see Montoya doing similar things this year in the last 5 races...
The important point:It'll be up to the driver to help or not

Ask Montoya fans or Montoya himself if its gonna make them happy!!!

Julian Mayo · Post by **Julian Mayo** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 9:25 pm

Strange that Fisi has had a problem with the Refuel Rig EVERYTIME he is in a situation to take points off Alonso, since Alonso took the lead in the C'ship

Kapel · Post by **Kapel** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 9:28 pm

julian mayo wrote:Strange that Fisi has had a problem with the Refuel Rig EVERYTIME he is in a situation to take points off Alonso, since Alonso took the lead in the C'ship

N what are u indicating here???

News On F1 Forums - Talk Formula 1

Thoughts on the Turkish Grand Prix

Driver of the day

Thoughts on the Turkish Grand Prix