Thoughts on the Turkish Grand Prix

[Byron Forbes]

The question I think you've all missed, is did the radio message to Alonso also go to Fisichella's radio as well?

[Kapel]

The question I think you've all missed, is did the radio message to Alonso also go to Fisichella's radio as well?

Probably!!!

[JayVee]

Kapel,

McLaren admitted they stuffed up for the Australian GP farce and they made up for it when in 99 at the Belgian GP Coulthard won ahead of Hakkinen who was fighting for the championship.
They made a mistake, and Belgium 99 proved what their philosophy is.
At Ferrari, the philosophy is to have one driver and a helper.
Those are two completely different philiosphies. The difference is black and white.

And BTW, I asked this before, why is it that at Ferrari they tell their drivers to hold position after the final stop yet in Monaco Michael took Rubens on the last lap ? Why ?

[JayVee]

1. A potential team order in Renault (can be termed as Teammate helping the other,not willingly though)

Fisichella after qualifying said

I told you already at the last couple of races, if Fernando is fighting for the championship and if he needs help from me I will help him

What bit of that do you term "not willingly"

[JayVee]

don't be surprised to see Montoya doing similar things this year in the last 5 races...
The important point:It'll be up to the driver to help or not

Ask Montoya fans or Montoya himself if its gonna make them happy!!!

Guys where you sleeping or have you already forgotten ? Montoya let Raikkonen pass him in Hungary
But we didn't see it on TV and we didn't here it on the radio

[JayVee]

Strange that Fisi has had a problem with the Refuel Rig EVERYTIME he is in a situation to take points off Alonso, since Alonso took the lead in the C'ship

It was more like he stalled the car twice in the pits but he wasn't ahead of Alonso. It was only in Canada that Fisichella got ahead of Alonso and at the time his car failed.

All this conspiracy rubbish, why would Renault damage their chances in the Constructors Championship to help one driver ?

Perhaps Montoya's Tennis (or Bike) accident was a setup so that he doesn't threaten Raikkonen

You can always come up with theories, but the facts are Alonso is quicker and more consistent the Fisichella. You saw in Turkey how many times Fisichella went wide (and don't count the time Michael pushed him )

Remember at the start of the season, you were dreading an 8th title by Michael and threatining to go watch the boats. This season is far better than last season and lets enjoy that. And no I am not saying this because Alonso is about to become champion, I would have enjoyed it as long as Michael wasn't winning

[rah]

Kapel,

McLaren admitted they stuffed up for the Australian GP farce and they made up for it when in 99 at the Belgian GP Coulthard won ahead of Hakkinen who was fighting for the championship.
They made a mistake, and Belgium 99 proved what their philosophy is.

umm.... do you actually believe this?

[Kapel]

Kapel,

McLaren admitted they stuffed up for the Australian GP farce and they made up for it when in 99 at the Belgian GP Coulthard won ahead of Hakkinen who was fighting for the championship.
They made a mistake, and Belgium 99 proved what their philosophy is.
At Ferrari, the philosophy is to have one driver and a helper.
Those are two completely different philiosphies. The difference is black and white.

And BTW, I asked this before, why is it that at Ferrari they tell their drivers to hold position after the final stop yet in Monaco Michael took Rubens on the last lap ? Why ?

Y do u think Rubens left Ferrari finally???

I've in this forum critisize Ferrari's policy of having NO.1 driver(not only b'cos Rubens is a friend).

JayVee ,the point i'm trying to make is that team orders still exist in F1,but are used in a way to help the team.There are always many ways of doing a particular thing rgt!!

[Kapel]

Fisichella after qualifying said

I told you already at the last couple of races,

if

Fernando is fighting for the championship and

if

he needs help from me I will help him

What bit of that do you term "not willingly"

By Turkey qualifying,wasnt it obvious that Fernando is fighting for championship & knowing Mclaren as the fastest cars Alonso would Invariabily need Fisi to stay between him & Montoya(cos u never know what Montoya can do )

My interpretation of this statement by Fisi is that one must ask me for help & i shall oblidge(for a drive next year )

[JayVee]

Kapel,

McLaren admitted they stuffed up for the Australian GP farce and they made up for it when in 99 at the Belgian GP Coulthard won ahead of Hakkinen who was fighting for the championship.
They made a mistake, and Belgium 99 proved what their philosophy is.

umm.... do you actually believe this?

umm.... this is a fact. I am not dreaming up a theory.

In 99 in Belgium (the 12th of 16 races), Hakkinen was fighting Irvine for the Championship, Irvine was getting all the help he could, Salo sitting in for Michael gave him the win in Germany just two races earlier yet in Belgium Coulthard won the race ahead of Hakkinen. If McLaren had Ferrari-like team orders they would have ordered Coulthard to let Hakkinen pass but they didn't.
Hakkinen won the championship from Irvine by just two points.
What do you call that ?

[JayVee]

Kapel,

McLaren admitted they stuffed up for the Australian GP farce and they made up for it when in 99 at the Belgian GP Coulthard won ahead of Hakkinen who was fighting for the championship.
They made a mistake, and Belgium 99 proved what their philosophy is.
At Ferrari, the philosophy is to have one driver and a helper.
Those are two completely different philiosphies. The difference is black and white.

And BTW, I asked this before, why is it that at Ferrari they tell their drivers to hold position after the final stop yet in Monaco Michael took Rubens on the last lap ? Why ?

Y do u think Rubens left Ferrari finally???

I've in this forum critisize Ferrari's policy of having NO.1 driver(not only b'cos Rubens is a friend).

JayVee ,the point i'm trying to make is that team orders still exist in F1,but are used in a way to help the team.There are always many ways of doing a particular thing rgt!!

Rubens should have left the second year if he wasn't happy. I don't really know why he stayed, you may tell us

If team orders and I stress the word orders, then why didn't Coulthard give way to Hakkinen in 99 ?

[JayVee]

Fisichella after qualifying said

I told you already at the last couple of races, Fernando is fighting for the championship and he needs help from me I will help him

What bit of that do you term "not willingly"

By Turkey qualifying,wasnt it obvious that Fernando is fighting for championship & knowing Mclaren as the fastest cars Alonso would Invariabily need Fisi to stay between him & Montoya(cos u never know what Montoya can do )

Kapel,

At the start of the race Fisi led the race, now don't tell me he gave away two places just to be a buffer between Alonso and Montoya
He simply stuffed up on the first lap and went wide.

My interpretation of this statement by Fisi is that one must ask me for help & i shall oblidge(for a drive next year )

As much as I tried, I can't see how your statement here equates to "can be termed as Teammate helping the other,not willingly though"

All the signs are that Fisichella is unlikely to stay at Renault next year.

[Kapel]

Cos his radio plugged came of with the vibration in his car

[rah]

Kapel,

McLaren admitted they stuffed up for the Australian GP farce and they made up for it when in 99 at the Belgian GP Coulthard won ahead of Hakkinen who was fighting for the championship.
They made a mistake, and Belgium 99 proved what their philosophy is.

umm.... do you actually believe this?

umm.... this is a fact. I am not dreaming up a theory.

In 99 in Belgium (the 12th of 16 races), Hakkinen was fighting Irvine for the Championship, Irvine was getting all the help he could, Salo sitting in for Michael gave him the win in Germany just two races earlier yet in Belgium Coulthard won the race ahead of Hakkinen. If McLaren had Ferrari-like team orders they would have ordered Coulthard to let Hakkinen pass but they didn't.
Hakkinen won the championship from Irvine by just two points.
What do you call that ?

I would call that as David being a pig headed stubborn driver. And I like it. To say that this was a result of the first race of a year previous is a massive leap of the imagination. McLaren philosophy would be the same as everyone elses on the grid. To win. And to satisfy their sponsors which is the same thing.

[JayVee]

I would call that as David being a pig headed stubborn driver. And I like it. To say that this was a result of the first race of a year previous is a massive leap of the imagination. McLaren philosophy would be the same as everyone elses on the grid. To win. And to satisfy their sponsors which is the same thing.

Hmmm.... and David in 98 was a softie roll-over flexible driver. Oh what a year makes