Thoughts on the United States Grand Prix

[JayVee]

I think that what happened in the US is a natural step towards the split. The powers that be failed to agree. Why ? Because of all the politics!

Maybe I am simplifying but just as the teams failed to agree on testing, days vs kilometeres they didn't agree at Indy. Why ? Because they are dead set on not agreeing.

I now have no doubt the series will split. Even Bernie failed to come up with a solution.

The result, well Ferrari got 18 points due to a Michelin stuff up. They get a break but what worries me is what penalty will apply to Michelin as surely the FIA will put all the blame on Michelin and they will have to pay dearly.

If as some have suggested Michelin are banned, well that will be the end of F1 I think even before 2008. I doubt that will happen but I any measure taken to unsettle them will be equally bad.

The race itself was a farce, a 2 car farce. If you really think they were racing, then you weren't paying attention. Rubens being upset was just part of the game. I will not sympathise with him again. Barrichello was allowed to get ahead as they delayed Michael in the pits. Brawn said "During the pit stops we were being cautious simply because we had time to spare." But I thought they were racing!!

Then after Michael got ahead an Rubens went wide they were told to hold position, now why is it when Michael is ahead they are told to hold position after the second stop yet when Rubens is ahead (Monaco) Michael gets past ?

The season was looking good but I am starting to wonder if that is about to change

[Kapel]

Just trying to cool u down mate.Also now, i'm tired of arguing in this matter.

If you remain cool after a pathetic outcome like that then I think you've confused cool with carelessness.

Carelessness
Michelin took care of their teams by not allowing them to race but where careless in getting the wrong tyre for the race.
Bryon v could keep arguing & agree to disagree

But just wanna mention,Michelin is to be blamed & not bridgestone(even if they had info from Firestone,i think non of the competitors share their info unless in extreme conditions.The best is allow one day of testing on the resurfaced track .)

Gee wizz, what qualifies as "extreme conditions". You need to see Ralf or any Michelin driver splattered all over the fence? I can't see it being much more extreme.

The facts are that Michelin are utterly useless for not having a tyre that could withstand such riggors. But for me, this is overshadowed by the fact that Bridgestone had knowledge about the danger of that part of the track and their failure to share it is unsporting at best and I dare say maybe even criminal. I would have no problem seeing criminal charges laid against Bridgestone and anyone on any of the Bridgestone teams that was aware of this situation. You can't tell me that Bridgestone don't realise the danger the Michelin runners were put in as a result of their failure to share this knowlegde. This is overstepping the line between sporting competitiveness and human decency.

Hmm,So u mean bridgestone knew as the track was resurfaced ,on turn 13, the track has been relaid with sharp carbon which would slit their tyre.How would Bridgestone have known what tyre Michelins are bringing which would not perform here ?? Ahh,Michelins gives them day to day report of the compound & constrution of their tyres!!!!!
Baseless


Remember the last episode of Seinfeld?[/quote] No,please tell me.

[JayVee]

With the issue being safety of the Michelin tires, neither of Jordan or Minardi could follow the Michelin teams into the pits, Stoddard has managed to become my least liked person in F1, and his contined commenting on matters F1 have pulled me away from a 15 year support of team Minardi.

I do not agree that the rules do not allow for a tyre change, the sporting code article 74, section a clearly allow for that, when the tire is in danger of failing, so all the teams had the option, but they could no refuel at the same stop, so it would have slowed them down, this is the reason that Michael Schumacher's first stop was so slow, first they checked the tire, then they refuelled.

The chicane was never going to happen, and flying in tires would have set a bad presedent.

I refuse to belive in a sinister Fireastone / Bridgestone alliance, it is the basic design of the Michelin tires that is at fault, they aer running a tiers, with "soft" side, that is never going to be stable, secure, strong enough on a banked curve at speed, unless they make it so hard, that thay wil lose their clear edge over Bridgestone.

I place all!! the blamce on Michelin, 2 weeks ago their design concept cost Kimi R?ikk?nnen a win, and this weekend their design concept cost all their contracted teams a Grand Prix.

As surreal as the "race" was the points are fully earned points, and in my view count equallly to the WDC and WCC tally at the end of the seson, there is little reason yet, to think that Michael Schumacher will challenge Fernando Alonso, but if at the end of the season Michael Schumacher clinches the WCC with 1 point more than Alonso, Renault can go to Bibendum and complain.

The presense of Jordan and Minardi is irrelevant. You seriously don't think they can race Ferrari ??

Michelin made a mistake yes but claiming their tyre was too soft by design ? How come they raced there last year and the year before ? Yes shorter stints but still around 25 laps worth ?

You can blame Michelin yes but linking what happened at Indy with Kimi's suspension failure due to flat spotting his tyre is ridiculous. You are trying to mix things up and confuse things.

If things don't get worse Michael has no chance but I am afraid they will and guess what Ferrari and Michael will benefit

But you must be in a good mood with a Dane winning Le Mans

[Hardeep Singh]

All the Michelin runners and teams are talking about safety in US
Where was their safety in Europe. Kimmi was allowed to run at Nurburgring while his car?s tyre was in much bad condition and risk was taken for Kimi and Other driver life
Where was safety when Alonso keeps on running with full worn out tyre at Monaco.
If they are realy concerned about driver safety, at both the cases they should have called their driver out ...

[sgd]

BUT! would ferrari join the other 9 teams for the sake of the sport, of the fans out there, the problem would be a lot easer to solve.

I would just like to reverse the question,Would the "group of 7 or 9" helped ferrari in the way u want Ferrari to join them???? FOR THE SAKE OF FANS.I very much doubt it.

Sgd,there is a clear rift between Ferarri & other teams,i dont expect them to come to one conclusion ever, which is sad for us fans

ONLY Michelins are to be blamed.FIA,mayb ,for the way they handled things,but started it???

it is nonsense to think about "the reverse the question" all is hipotetical and useless... I only want to say that it is not a secret for anybody the favoritism from FIA toward ferrari, so in the oppositive situation... useless to duscuss. let's talk better about what actually happened...

Michelin did a BIG mistake. it was a fact. no way back.
FIA wasn't able to save the race (that was always posible!)
why? because of politics and favoritism. full point.

want guilties (order matters)?
1.Michelin for their MISTAKE.
2.FIA for their political - antisportive approach to the problem.
3.Ferrari for not acting together witht the rest of the teams in order to save the race.

you may ask "but if it would be renault?" "but if it would be Mclaren?" I said: I don't care, it was Ferrari and they are the guilty ones.
all the teams would agree the race would heppened...that's for sure.

[JayVee]

All the Michelin runners and teams are talking about safety in US
Where was their safety in Europe. Kimmi was allowed to run at Nurburgring while his car?s tyre was in much bad condition and risk was taken for Kimi and Other driver life
Where was safety when Alonso keeps on running with full worn out tyre at Monaco.
If they are realy concerned about driver safety, at both the cases they should have called their driver out ...

Kimi and McLaren were critisised for it and I think even the FIA issue a reminder following that one (possibly the reason Michelin did what they did at Indy).
Alonso, well the tyre was worn out but it wasn't about to explode. He struggled yes but he was never in danger! There have been many many cases in the past where cars raced on nearly worn tyres.

At Indy there was Ralf's crash and so they had too look at the cause. Just like when a team suffers from a wing failure and decide to pull out. This time though 14 cars were affected and so it would have been good for the sport and the fans to find a solution.

[K-D]

There were plenty solutions suggested.

Some by Michelin outside the rules and regulations, therefore not possible to follow by the FIA.

Some suggested by the FIA, which were inside the rules and regulations, these were rejected by Michelin and the Michelin shod teams.

I do think that there is a connection with Kimi's failure at the European Grand Prix. Michelin and Bridgestone are following two different desig concepts in F1 tire making, with Michelign having a softer side to the tires, this enable them to be more responsive/stronger on twisty high downforce parts of the tracks, giving a little away i high speed corners.

There is a difference from last year to this year, in the implemetation of the 1 tire rule, however the Michelin shod teams send exactly two driver to the Indianapolis test (Massa and Davidson), so Michelin had clearly thought themselves fully updated on the charasteristics of the track.

The problem is not the surface, it is the rise in temperature of the rear left tire, when under full load on in turn 13. This degrade the tire faster than anticipated, as the tire compound is to soft.

The tire war have the tire manufacurers pursuing every advantage they can get, and for the USGP 2005 Michelin wnet to far, Bridgestome got it right and completed the 3 day race weekend with out any tire related problems.

[rah]

Nice one K-D. Have to agree.

[N. Jones]

I was there... people were VERY pissed off. I think there were many people from South America at the track to see Montoya race. A number of them were brought to tears...

This is not Ferrari's doing.

Something could have been done in the interest of safety. I was firmly on the Michelin side but now I am starting to waver. If thety couldn't find the problem then they should run slower. Either way fans and press would have felt that a Ferrari win was tainted.

One thing I must say is that most people had no idea what was happening. I believe the majority were up to speed so to speak on the tire situation (which, frankly, I was amazed that most knew - I expected an ignorant crowd).


Why should the Bridgestone runners be penalized?
Why can't the Michelin runners drive slower through the chicane? They would have easily taken the points. The Jordan is too twitchy and the Minardi is just slow...
Michelin got it wrong - instead of penalizing everyone they should have just penalized themselves (they did but they brought all of the fans with them...).
I was going to my first F1 race with excitement and anticipation - I left feeling sad, depressed and angry. I desperatly want to go next year but trying to convince the two friends who went with me will be a challenge...

[sgd]

There were plenty solutions suggested.

Some by Michelin outside the rules and regulations, therefore not possible to follow by the FIA.

Some suggested by the FIA, which were inside the rules and regulations, these were rejected by Michelin and the Michelin shod teams.

Ah yeah!!! of course, so FIA was right!!! I expected that from you...
first you said the michelin cars could change their tyres in the race to a good ones (i wrote you were wrong but you, as ussually, ignored the post if you see you weren't right) .
Now let's take a look at FIA solutions:
1.change tyres every 10 laps... + fuel pits = 12/13 pit stops per driver, Wow!!!! FIA wise!!!
2.go slow in turn 13 and do not disturb other competitors (ferrari).
Wow!!!!!!! FIA wise!!!! THAT IS WHAT I CALL A F1 RACE!!!!!!!!!

later Michelin said the only way to go was to put a chicane...
the teams proposed: let's do a non-championship race with the chicane for the fans who came(and thus save the race), and later repeat the USGP... FIA said "f@#$ you all, no chicane, don't want to go slow, don't want to make 12 pit stops... f@#$ you!!. and the fans??? and the sport??? ................. f@#$ you too!!!!!!!!!!!!

cars going slow?? 12 pit stops?? BULL s#$%!!!

FIA reacted as an idiot (as a stupid politician) to a situation. FIA acted like Todt would acted. FIA stinks, just a kindergarden(it's my game, don't like it? go away!)

FIA acted like Todt would acted:
f@#$ the sport, f@#$ the fans, Michael - Rubens 1-2!!!! and be happy K-D!!!! (and rah, F1g, kapel, etc...)

[K-D]

I read your first post as well. I never stated that they should change to anything but the same specification tire, then the one they were qualified on. The contention by Michelin was that the tires could not last a race distance, not that the tires could not be used at all.

The tires were used to qualify, and the first 4 cars on the grid were using Michelin tires. Michaels of Williams have stated that Williams had no problems with their tires, that could no be rectified by changes in tier presure and suspension settings.

Weather a Michelin shod car would be "slow" using one of he uggestions of the FIA is really outside the scope of the "controversy", and not erally a concern. I do not have a problem with Minardi being constantly 2 - 3 seconds slower than the fast cars of the grid, this is partly due to the resources availabl, partly the technologu used. If all the Michelin teams for one race were to be "slow" due to the technology they chose to use, then so be it. I have steadfastlly through this season opeted NOT to blame Bridegstone for the lowscoring by Ferrari and Bridgestone have decided to get very close, so they will "live" and "die" by that.

Equally all the Michelin shod teams have opted to race on Mcihelin tires, they had 3 different legal options to race on Sunday, yet chose not to. This is their right, but it is also completely outside the discussion to blame anyone but Michelin.

[N. Jones]

Because I keep hearing about no more USGP....

Which is a shame because I would still want to attend one. I hope somehow this gets resolved....

[polo2028]

If further USGP is cancelled, FIA should be blamed on.

[N. Jones]

I think I will start going to Montreal. That way I could make a vacation out of it and recoup something from the trip.

BUT - I must say my freinds and I were lucky - we came from a suburb of Chicago, so our six hour round trip was much shorter than most people ( I think).

[alonsofan]

i am very sad, a very close friend of mine travelled from brazil to watch the race. he was so excited before the race, it was his first race outside brazil, i haven't talked to him yet but he will be very dissapointed (even if he is a barrichello fan!)

they should have come up with a solution, they are the experts but i think they didnt want to, they don't care about the fans