Thoughts on the European Grand Prix

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Moderators: cmlean, Ed, The Qualiflyer, The Heretic

Driver of the day

Fernando Alonso
7
44%
Nick Heidfeld
1
6%
Rubens Barrichello
1
6%
David Coulthard
5
31%
Michael Schumacher
0
No votes
Michael Schumacher
0
No votes
Giancarlo Fisichella
1
6%
Juan Pablo Montoya
0
No votes
Jarno Trulli
0
No votes
Kimi Raikkonen
1
6%
 
Total votes: 16

Kapel
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Post by Kapel » Tue May 31, 2005 10:11 pm

julian mayo wrote:
G,day Kappy
I am starting to think that the surface of the various tracks is having an effect on the michelin runners. Kimis problem was down to a big flat spot,
but I think the various teams are having set up problems because of the nature of the bitumen at each venue. What suits eg. Williams at one track, is different at the next and so on, if you can follow what I mean. ( I'm not explaining it well) :lol:
Yeah i got it :wink:
I also can understand ur trouble expalining things...things have been messy here,isnt it? :shock:

U chill, have a nice day,if need be use ur Axe :wink:
An F1 Idiot!!!

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Post by Julian Mayo » Tue May 31, 2005 10:22 pm

Kapel wrote:
julian mayo wrote:
G,day Kappy
I am starting to think that the surface of the various tracks is having an effect on the michelin runners. Kimis problem was down to a big flat spot,
but I think the various teams are having set up problems because of the nature of the bitumen at each venue. What suits eg. Williams at one track, is different at the next and so on, if you can follow what I mean. ( I'm not explaining it well) :lol:
Yeah i got it :wink:
I also can understand ur trouble expalining things...things have been messy here,isnt it? :shock:

U chill, have a nice day,if need be use ur Axe :wink:
Nah, its not that, mate.
And the bloody teenager has hidden the Axe again, must be time for the next school report. If she doesn't get straight A's shes D.E.D. :wink:
The Mountain is a savage Mistress.

F1greyhound
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Post by F1greyhound » Tue May 31, 2005 11:10 pm

As I see the race after a few replays:

Monty has at least 50%(Id say 70) credit for the crash with Mark, the way he cut in has to be regarded as highly uninspired(even if Mark was a touch late on the brake). Monty as if didnt care if he might hit another car or not going into that bend. I dont think any of the other accidents, e.g.Ralf vs.Fernando would have necessarily occured without that.
Both FERRARIS and especially Michael were pretty much done by the first bend while brave old Mark who was worst off took the blame on himself??

If I was deciding at WILLIAMS I would definitely have a word with my boys about their attitude. Mark first plays a stinker because Nick passed him in Monaco and then blames himself for Montys reckless move?? Nick finishes fair enough 2nd twice incl. one from pole and says he expected Kimi to pass him at the start but that the 2 races couldnt have been any better for him...I mean Michael or Kimi or Fernando and even some of the others would have said it could have been even better - if they had won the races. Mark and Nick should visit a sports psychologist to become potential champions. Dont get me wrong I like them both as drivers and I wouldnt mind if they won the Championship, its just hard to accept their reactions :? Also couldnt follow Nicks opinion of having had the right 3-stop strategy(Kimi and Fernando 2 stops..).

MCLAREN still had the best car as predicted, Kimi drove very well but was under much more pressure and consequently after a small error his tyre has been done causing the whole wheel to come off. Hat down to Kimis unbroken will to win that race. My driver of the day as with a bit of luck it would have been 3km further...
Monty, see above, plus race unspectacular maybe due to the car.

RENAULT recovered remarkably from their tyre wear(or did they?) at least speedwise. Fernando came home on slicks but pushed Kimi into that terminal suspension breakdown. Great drive, nothing short of Kimi. Fisico is keeping the bad luck(sgd, is that down to cheating or team order? :lol: )
bud drove well.

FERRARI were definitely worse than I expected, somewhat of a step back. Probably Michael suffered more either through choice of Tyres or whatever, he definitely looked ordinary this time(unlike Bahrain, Imola, Barcelona and Monaco)even if he might have achieved more without the first bend full stop. Rubens did comparatively well(on the worse strategy?) and might have been more impressive too without Montys move.

REDBULL remain the biggest surprise package of the season incl. David. Respect! He even might be driver of the day too by doing the result on a still inferior package. I love it. Tonio, well they wont find it hard now to let Christian race the next races... :wink:

TOYOTA, BAR and SAUBER shouldnt be judged on that race but Felipe went Michaels speed for most of the race. They all need to find gears for the next races... :arrow:
YOURS IN SPORT

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Post by Julian Mayo » Tue May 31, 2005 11:23 pm

I suspect Mark reacted to criticism after Monaco, and took the approach he did to get people like you and me to to react the way you just did! :lol:
The guy is no fool, he went to Europe with a worn out race suit and a change of underwear,n damn all else. Now he is in an F1 team which is getting better by the meeting. I suspect he may have a sports Psych tucked under his arm. His Lady is a smart operator too, I think she may have whacked him upside the ear about 10 minutes after he stepped off the podium at Monaco :lol:
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Post by sgd » Wed Jun 01, 2005 12:44 am

bundy wrote:
sgd wrote: hey! I inform: this year my team is Mclaren and my driver, JPM, and i already wrote: he was SLOW...

Juan Pablo is anything BUT slow.
I didn't mind he's slow.. I meant he was slow in this race, and still cited Ron Dennis as Montoya's lack ofspeed could be caused by a damaged floor...

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Post by F1greyhound » Wed Jun 01, 2005 12:50 am

Compared to Kimi, Montys not terrific this year in any way. Hes got the potential no doubt but should start showing it..........plus control.
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Julian Mayo
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Post by Julian Mayo » Wed Jun 01, 2005 12:54 am

F1greyhound wrote:Compared to Kimi, Montys not terrific this year in any way. Hes got the potential no doubt but should start showing it..........plus control.
Especially around turn one :wink:
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Post by sgd » Wed Jun 01, 2005 1:08 am

F1greyhound wrote:Compared to Kimi, Montys not terrific this year in any way. Hes got the potential no doubt but should start showing it..........plus control.
Agree. I've been thinking it was because his new in the team, you know, kimi has been there for 4 years (3?) and Montoya has raced only 5 times...still 3 races should be enough, bu then his f$%#%^) shoulder... :blah2: in the EuropeGP he'd won in no Webber the-super-fast. (of course assuming Kimi had retired)...
all in all I agree, he needs control, some experience with the team and confidence.
also he'd said the car didn't suit his drive-style... now he says the car does... so he must deliver NOW.

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Post by sgd » Wed Jun 01, 2005 1:41 am

julian mayo wrote:
F1greyhound wrote:Compared to Kimi, Montys not terrific this year in any way. Hes got the potential no doubt but should start showing it..........plus control.
Especially around turn one :wink:
I can't see the purpose of this sentence...
what happened there?
Webber just couldn't manage the pressure from Trulli and crashed into Montoya... (Webber words)
Altough you'd think he did it on propose, as he's so talented and smart...

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Post by F1greyhound » Wed Jun 01, 2005 1:55 am

Watch the 1st bend and try to confirm Monty didnt cut in..... :roll:
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Post by sgd » Wed Jun 01, 2005 2:31 am

F1greyhound wrote:Watch the 1st bend and try to confirm Monty didnt cut in..... :roll:
maybe because there's a turn to the right??

again... read Webber!! team quotes are your friends!

RE30B#16
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Re: Thoughts on the European Grand Prix

Post by RE30B#16 » Wed Jun 01, 2005 2:33 am

Tim wrote:Should they have opted to change the tyre and salvage some points ? Or just slow down enough to finish second as they had a large margin to Heidfeld ?
Raikkonen drove as slowly as he could to win the race. If I were Ron Dennis, I would've done just what they did and let him go for the win unless Kimi told the team, he could not hold on. Aside from not flat-spotting the tire in the first place, Raikkonen could not have done a better job.
Tim wrote:The incident at the first corner between Montoya and Webber ? Did Webber brake too late ? Or did Montoya turn in too early ?
I like Mark, but he was losing it before he collected Ralf Schumacher and Montoya. None of the three are in the running for a drivers award from me right about now
Tim wrote:Thoughts and your driver of the day ?
Giancarlo Fisichella!!! Last to 5th? Yeah!!!

Chris
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Post by RE30B#16 » Wed Jun 01, 2005 2:51 am

F1greyhound wrote: If I was deciding at WILLIAMS I would definitely have a word with my boys about their attitude. Mark first plays a stinker because Nick passed him in Monaco and then blames himself for Montys reckless move?? Nick finishes fair enough 2nd twice incl. one from pole and says he expected Kimi to pass him at the start but that the 2 races couldnt have been any better for him...I mean Michael or Kimi or Fernando and even some of the others would have said it could have been even better - if they had won the races. Mark and Nick should visit a sports psychologist to become potential champions
Oh, I don't know. I rather prefered the honesty over some of the ridiculous cryptic remarks I hear from some of the usual suspects at these press meetings.

I thought Nick was being honest by saying they did not have the car to beat McLaren. They didn't! Not in that race. I like the way Alonso put it when asked about his pit strategy being good. Barely able to keep the grin off his face, he said, "I guess my strategy was the best. I got the win!" 8)

Chris

Formula 1 could use a brash personality James Hunt, Niki Lauda, Nigel Mansell, or even Eddie Irvine. "Oh, I had no doubt that Raikkonen's suspension would fail and I'd be taking the checkers." That's probably what the late James Hunt would have said.
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Fernando Alonso is currently the best... Period!!!


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Post by sgd » Wed Jun 01, 2005 10:23 am

F1greyhound wrote: If I was deciding at WILLIAMS I would definitely have a word with my boys about their attitude. Mark first plays a stinker because Nick passed him in Monaco and then blames himself for Montys reckless move?? Nick finishes fair enough 2nd twice incl. one from pole and says he expected Kimi to pass him at the start but that the 2 races couldnt have been any better for him...I mean Michael or Kimi or Fernando and even some of the others would have said it could have been even better - if they had won the races. Mark and Nick should visit a sports psychologist to become potential champions
i agree with you here, F1g!
is the same i said before about the WC-factor....
but not only Webber and Nick... Button is the same, and maybe others too.
I agree also on Michael or Kimi or Fernando, here belongs JPM too, and as you say, maybe some of the others as well...

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Post by Julian Mayo » Thu Jun 02, 2005 8:02 am

RE30B#16 wrote:
F1greyhound wrote: If I was deciding at WILLIAMS I would definitely have a word with my boys about their attitude. Mark first plays a stinker because Nick passed him in Monaco and then blames himself for Montys reckless move?? Nick finishes fair enough 2nd twice incl. one from pole and says he expected Kimi to pass him at the start but that the 2 races couldnt have been any better for him...I mean Michael or Kimi or Fernando and even some of the others would have said it could have been even better - if they had won the races. Mark and Nick should visit a sports psychologist to become potential champions
Oh, I don't know. I rather prefered the honesty over some of the ridiculous cryptic remarks I hear from some of the usual suspects at these press meetings.

I thought Nick was being honest by saying they did not have the car to beat McLaren. They didn't! Not in that race. I like the way Alonso put it when asked about his pit strategy being good. Barely able to keep the grin off his face, he said, "I guess my strategy was the best. I got the win!" 8)

Chris

Formula 1 could use a brash personality James Hunt, Niki Lauda, Nigel Mansell, or even Eddie Irvine. "Oh, I had no doubt that Raikkonen's suspension would fail and I'd be taking the checkers." That's probably what the late James Hunt would have said.
It is a damned good point! Webber stands on the podium looking pissed off cos he got third,and gets criticized!
He set out to win the bloody thing! In his mind he failed, regardless of the reasons, he failed.
I have often wondered about the smiling 2nd and 3rd place getters waving their trophys over their heads, I thought they got paid to win!!
In these times of sanitized everything, it's bloody good to see someone with "attitude". I believe its that "Attitude" which will take him to the top.
Similarly Alonso showed "attitude" to keep Schuey at bay, and that identifies him as a future champion.
Bring personalities back to the sport! I have had enough of the plastic, pooh faced,cardboard cut outs!! :twisted:
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