Senna vs. Schumacher - The debate continues

[JayVee]

Welcome Vinnycbrf4i

I agree with what you say!

But I openly say that I don't like Michael and I don't rate him as a great. How can you be a great when you use dirty tactics to win championships. Hill and Villeneuve (BTW Vinnycbrf4i Michael didn't win when he deliberatly crashed into Villeneuve)

And how can you be great when you don't look in your mirrors and spin out behind a saftey car

[Kapel]

Welcome back queen

For me Schumi & Senna are both Great,
Alonso & Kimi will be great,
Montoya will the be the greatest

[Senna forever41]

Senna was my childhood hero, no other driver has ever made me feel the way he did on those sunday afternoons. Of course Senna is better, goes without saying, but that's just my opinion.

[swarf69]

Michael Schumacher's statistical dominance of Formula One racing is hardly news. By pretty much any objective standard you care to employ, he's already proved himself the most successful driver the sport has ever produced. But after taking P1 on the grid in Bahrain, he's now just one away from clinching the last of the major statistical records to have eluded him so far - that of the late Ayrton Senna's 65 pole positions.

Not that the seven-times world champion needs to break this final record to prove himself, of course. He's already taken 84 victories from 231 race starts. By contrast, the next most successful driver, Alain Prost, managed ?just? 51 wins from 199 races. Schumacher has taken more fastest laps (69), enjoyed more visits to the podium (143), scored more championship points (1256), led for more laps (4769) and led for more distance (22,469 kilometres) than any other driver in the history of the sport.

Despite all of the above, many will regard this final record - and the relative time it has taken Schumacher to reach it - as clear evidence that this is one area where he can't match the mercurial Senna. The Brazilian racked up his 65 poles in the 161 races that preceded his tragic death at Imola in 1994. Schumacher has needed almost half as many races again to reach the same mark.

Not only is that a considerably better ?strike rate?, Senna taking pole on average every 2.5 races during his career, versus one pole for every 3.5 race starts for Schumacher - but the Brazilian was also empirically better able to ?over-qualify? relatively poor cars. In his first season with a front-ranking team, driving for Lotus in 1985, he managed to score seven poles, although the car's disastrous reliability only allowed him to turn one of those into a victory. The following year he bettered that with no fewer than nine pole positions for Lotus, although he emerged victorious at the end of only two of those races.

And in 1988, by now driving for McLaren, Senna put in what was possibly the greatest ever qualifying lap - taking P1 at the tight and twisty Monaco circuit with a time 1.4 seconds faster than the second-placed man - Alain Prost, who was driving an identical car. Gerhard Berger's third placed Ferrari was 2.7 seconds down on him. It was the most dominant qualifying performance in the recent history of the sport - and Senna later confessed that he had felt himself to be having a strange, out-of-body experience while he was doing it.

Schumacher has long claimed to be unconcerned with the statistical records that he is breaking - and he's long since proved himself the most successful Formula One driver of all time. But when it comes to qualifying, the black art of extracting the absolute maximum from a car over a single flying lap, many will argue that - 66 poles or not - it's still the one place he will have to defer to Senna.

Fortunately i was lucky enough to see Ayrton beat Schumacher through 91-93 it was great. Shame Schumacher never had such competiton through his career. Mind you, there alway Raikkonen to finish Schumachers colourful career in the grey........oops have we got some competiton that will beat Schumacher?? It's about time before Schumacher cheapens what a F1 world championship means he's starting to make it sound like a Wimbledon trophy. Although even if Raikkonen was against Senna , i know in some strange - unexplainable way - Senna would have still gone quicker..... - can anybody answer that? ......God bless Ayrton Senna. Down with the FIA - always making sure Ferrari win.

[RE30B#16]

It is my firm belief that Schumacher was the greater of the two. This is based on the fact that Schumacher just simply knows how to win races and now titles better than Senna ever could.
... I recently watched the 1993 season in review and Schumacher gave Senna a really good run for his money in many of the wheel to wheel battles. ... I became a fan of MS in Moncao 1994, because I was watching my first ever GP. Ironically it was the first race without Senna. But in 1997 and further one I heard about Senna. I searched info about him and I became a fan of Senna AFTER his death. ... Schumacher never complained really hard on the team, even when it was critical. He always was positive to the team even in bad times. He never slammed the team and this POSITIVE about him. I also admire this in him. This you CANNOT say about Senna. Senna: Cannot say that he transformed team into a better one. ... I think if you look at the the last 18 years (1987-2004). The only man which I in my opinion can say that won the championships with a little bit lesser material is Schumacher. ... All other drivers in my opinion became champions in the best car. Michael also came very near in 1997 and 1998 in less material. Although he didn't win the championship he made clear he was the best driver. ... There are also some claims on that Senna had great characters to fight to and that is true. But remember in his prime days in 1988-1991 he fought only with Prost and had better cars than Mansell, Piquet, etc although they were great characters. Schumacher on the other had fought with lesser material against Williams and McLaren and that compensates this theory. ... With great respect - Vilash S - The Netherlands

This post proves the addage that you had to be there!

All I will say is that, I've been watching Formula 1 for 30 years. I watched the rise of Alain Prost, Nigel Mansell, Ayrton Senna, Michael Schumacher, Alan Jones, Nelson Piquet, Damon Hill, Mika Hakkinen and Fernando Alonso, and they all exhibit the same qualities. The canny ability to capitalize on whatever opportunities they had on track and off. This post, however, attempts to rewrite history in that it negates the rest of the competition during those eras. What about Gerhard Berger, Thierry Boutsen, Riccardo Patrese, Michele Alboreto, Jean Alesi, Johnny Herbert, Allesandro Nannini, Eddie Irvine, Olivier Panis, Heinz-Harold Frentzen, and other who were race winners in this combined era? What about the other great competitors like Gilles Villeneuve, Keke Rosberg, Stefan Bellof, Rene Arnoux and Patrick Tambay, capable of winning every single race they entered?

I've watched all of these guys drive, and stats notwithstanding, Senna was the greatest of them all. Jimmy Clark may have been better, but the greatest ever is between those two. Fangio, Prost and Schumacher were hands down the most consistent in their eras, but stats don't tell the whole story.

Chris

[Kapel]

Have fun Swarf

[RE30B#16]

My previous post wasn't exhaustive by any means, but I feel I would be remiss if I didn't just mention the names Sterling Moss and Chris Amon, two drivers who are considered by their own more decorated colleagues as the greatest drivers of all time along with Jim Clark.

IMHO, Jackie Stewart, Jacky Ickx, Ronnie Peterson and Emerson Fittipaldi are four of the most phenomenal drivers from any era.

I love this sport!

Chris

[Kapel]

My previous post wasn't exhaustive by any means, but I feel I would be remiss if I didn't just mention the names Sterling Moss and Chris Amon, two drivers who are considered by their own more decorated colleagues as the greatest drivers of all time along with Jim Clark.

IMHO, Jackie Stewart, Jacky Ickx, Ronnie Peterson and Emerson Fittipaldi are four of the most phenomenal drivers from any era.

I love this sport!

Chris

U sure Chris u didnt miss anyone??

Everyone is great...U need to have something to have driven the F1 car...if ur a race winner,even better...a championship winner...great , multiple winner..even greater

Even Sato i think is great in his own way,its a art to crash into every1 when they r not expecting it

[RE30B#16]

And now my most inflammatory remark...

Schumacher hasn't really had any competition since Damon Hill retired!



Okay, so it wasn't that inflammatory! Actually, he hasn't had competition since Hakkinen retired. In each year after the death of Senna, he only had one serious competitor to deal with each season. Damon Hill for 2 years, Jacques Villeneuve for one year, and then Hakkinen for the next few, but after Hakkinen retired, he hasn't seen real competion until Fernando Alonso came into his own.

Chris

[Kapel]

And now my most inflammatory remark...

Schumacher hasn't really had any competition since Damon Hill retired!



Okay, so it wasn't that inflammatory! Actually, he hasn't had competition since Hakkinen retired. In each year after the death of Senna, he only had one serious competitor to deal with each season. Damon Hill for 2 years, Jacques Villeneuve for one year, and then Hakkinen for the next few, but after Hakkinen retired, he hasn't seen real competion until Fernando Alonso came into his own.

Chris

[RE30B#16]

Everyone is great...U need to have something to have driven the F1 car...if ur a race winner,even better...a championship winner...great , multiple winner..even greater

AGREED!!!!


Chris

[RE30B#16]

And now my most inflammatory remark...

Schumacher hasn't really had any competition since Damon Hill retired!



Okay, so it wasn't that inflammatory! Actually, he hasn't had competition since Hakkinen retired. In each year after the death of Senna, he only had one serious competitor to deal with each season. Damon Hill for 2 years, Jacques Villeneuve for one year, and then Hakkinen for the next few, but after Hakkinen retired, he hasn't seen real competion until Fernando Alonso came into his own.

Chris

[Kapel]

[<T-K>]

Senna vs. Schumacher
I rate Senna higher than Schumacher
62% [ 195 ]
I rate Schumacher higher than Senna
23% [ 74 ]
I rate them at the same level
2% [ 9 ]
The 2 cannot be compared
10% [ 33 ]
I don't rate either
0% [ 2 ]

Total Votes : 313

Who were the two that said niether of them were any good????

[sgd]

Senna vs. Schumacher
I rate Senna higher than Schumacher
62% [ 195 ]
I rate Schumacher higher than Senna
23% [ 74 ]
I rate them at the same level
2% [ 9 ]
The 2 cannot be compared
10% [ 33 ]
I don't rate either
0% [ 2 ]

Total Votes : 313

Who were the two that said niether of them were any good????